matmilne, you are so agressive. I think you need to chill out a bit, if people want to try to do music they definitly can.
State of the industry
I'm just going to say this outright - take what Matt Milne says with a grain of salt guys. This is the same guy who claimed to have narrowly missed scoring Harry Potter 7 several years ago on this site (along with many other outlandish claims):
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/457503-internationally-renowned-film-composer-looking-for-work/
Nathan Madsen
Nate (AT) MadsenStudios (DOT) Com
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios
Austin, TX
I'm just going to say this outright - take what Matt Milne says with a grain of salt guys. This is the same guy who claimed to have narrowly missed scoring Harry Potter 7 several years ago on this site (along with many other outlandish claims):
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/457503-internationally-renowned-film-composer-looking-for-work/
He also said in the same thread that he has bipolar disorder, and Asperger syndrome (now considered an autism spectrum disorder); I don't study clinical psychology too intensely (i.e., only very little), but his behavior in the thread seems to back that up.
Individuals with bipolar disorder can have manic phases; the shortest way I can think of to describe this is they feel invincible and euphoric. This overconfidence typically leads to risky and/or arrogant behavior. One example would be claiming that you are among the ten best composers alive, and everybody else is beneath you/simply not on your level. There are some things that can help with this, such as drugs or regularly exercising, but generally this is NOT something they have control of.
Individuals with Asperger syndrome typically have serious difficulty with social intelligence, including empathy and understanding social norms. To illustrate how far this goes, a friend of mine who suffers from this has real serious trouble understanding sarcasm of any form (he does get slowly slowly slowly better at it). The cause for this is neurological in nature.
Please be understanding and respectful to Matt.
Now go on back on topic! :P
But I can't hold what someone said 7 years ago against them because I don't want the same treatment.
And I would hope none of you would do that to me either.
I started out young and brash and I'm glad that I've been able to learn from a decade of experience and a mostly supportive community.
Here is my cocky post:
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/331490-attempting-the-near-impossible-mrpg/
For the record, it was, in fact, impossible. Mostly because we were just some college kids in a metaphorical basement.
www.musicianeer.com
For me, there is a problem with too many people using too many resources, in a top heavy industry.
A smaller, more efficient, less desperate industry might produce higher quality results.
That is a calmly-expressed opinion, on the state of the industry.
yes 7 years is a long time. I started out scoring a handful of tiny projects mostly student stuff (in 05), and worked my way in from there, it has produced a different approach, attitude and workflow.
I've had to produce a broadcast-able standard of work, with minimal resources and training. of course the approach is going to be different, even antithetical to others.
https://soundcloud.com/matt-milne-8/sets/demo-reel-full
Composer: Wings over the Reich, Wings Over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight - top 20 wargames of all time - PC Gamer
It's not just a matter of supply and demand- as others have stated, the situation has changed as a result of the technology. Now don't get me wrong- it's easy to be bitter when you spend most of your life learning certain skills only to have those skills made redundant by software/hardware- I can accept that, and I think removing the initial boundaries into the industry is a great thing. What really gets to me is the move towards loop/sample based music, in which people are able to string together a bunch of loops and deliver something that sounds amazingly professional and polished, if completely unoriginal and generic. Unfortunately, the average person will listen to tracks like these and think 'wow, sounds just like Zimmer' or so on, unaware that the loops used probably come from Zimmer himself.. and the problem is that is exactly what people will be expecting to hear.
The other problem, as mentioned above, is that this is a 'creative' industry (an oxymoron if you ask me..), unregulated and very unstructured. Things are not so different in TV and Film, although those industries have had enough time to settle into some kind of rhythm- but essentially the problem is the subjectivity of music and the wide range of opinions on different composers. It is very hard to justify hiring a composer on credentials alone, it is almost always a more emotional decision based on an attachment to that person's music.
If I may speak from the other side of shore, I can realize coding quality because I know how to code or visual asset quality I have been there before. But when it comes to audio, at least for me, can't say I possess any skill to distinguish quality as someone never played any instrument (beside flute at secondary school) .
So I think you should also step up to teach us how to appreciate good from bad, very basics and some theory. I had asked about it briefly before ( http://www.gamedev.net/topic/651305-i-want-something-like-x/ ) but there is more way to go imo.
mostates by moson?e | Embrace your burden
hmm appreciation and personal taste, not sure you can teach those. But you can certainly teach theory and practice.
https://soundcloud.com/matt-milne-8/sets/demo-reel-full
Composer: Wings over the Reich, Wings Over Flanders Fields, Rise of Flight - top 20 wargames of all time - PC Gamer
Hey Dan -
I see your point. I wasn't trying to create a flame war against Matt Milne. He pops up here every once in a while, stirs things up and then leaves for a long period of time. I do not know Matt well at all - in fact I've only had a few interactions with him on GD.net and one other forum site. For whatever reason, he likes to post rather aggressive things and comes off rather brash - whether it's intentional or not. I could've worded my post better to make my intention more clear, sorry about that.
Edit: I'll also add that while you may have started off in one way - you quickly displayed a willingness to engage, listen, discuss and learn. Those are vital to anyone's success! And now you're one of the leaders on here (and on other forums). If Matt had a longer track record of interactions (especially positive ones), we'd better understand where he's coming from and why he might say X as well as what he might mean. This is why I advocated taking what he said with a grain of salt - no offense meant to the guy on a personal level.
Nathan Madsen
Nate (AT) MadsenStudios (DOT) Com
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios
Austin, TX
So I think you should also step up to teach us how to appreciate good from bad, very basics and some theory. I had asked about it briefly before ( http://www.gamedev.net/topic/651305-i-want-something-like-x/ ) but there is more way to go imo.
This is the hard thing about art (music, visual art, writing, etc) because so much of it is subjective. What some may consider bad, others might really enjoy. So while things which are more concrete, like coding, are more black and white (like if the game is crashing, that's obivously not working) music is more of a grey area. This is also the challenging (and exciting!) part of being a composer in this industry. Each time I work with a new client, I view it as a puzzle - trying to figure out what works best for them and their game while remaining true to myself. It can be quite fun when it's working well!
Nathan Madsen
Nate (AT) MadsenStudios (DOT) Com
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios
Austin, TX
This is the hard thing about art (music, visual art, writing, etc) because so much of it is subjective. What some may consider bad, others might really enjoy.
That sums it up pretty well. People in this line of work can hear the differences in quality, but for your average consumer the only point is if they like it or not. The more I think about it, the more it has in common with quality code. For your end user they never see whats under the hood and can't easily tell quality code from a Fortran nightmare, they only know if they like the program or not.