I'm making an effort to build inter-personal communication skills. No matter where or what I post, it seems that my actual intentions never make it to the other participants. Usually, it ends up in a complete misunderstanding/flame war, and I become frustrated, because I try to help and give back to the communities, but it usually winds up backfiring as I find everyone (including the OP, sometimes) turning on me. One time, I posted a request for a particular arcade machine part on a buy/sell/trade group on Facebook, and surprisingly, someone immediately started making fun of me, received six likes in an hour, and after that, everyone refused to help me, following my posts with more insults from group to group. All I did was make one post, didn't even comment. To this day, no idea what the heck happened.

I've been on other forums where people were less than kind. The first time that I tried posting in someone's thread on a particular site, apparently, I gave too much of the solution when explaining how to do something (I guess it was homework), and one of the moderators came in, edited my post, gave a rude remark, and renamed the thread to something degrading. Well, so much for that forum.

Basically, about anything I post that either asks for help, or gives help, results in something somewhere somehow causing it to detonate, and it discourages me from ever posting; there are a lot of times where someone needs help, and I have an answer, but I refuse to post because someone's going to come regurgitate my answer for double reputation points, vote down, and chastise me.

It becomes particularly frustrating when someone's misconception of me causes them to start condescending, basically doing the equivalent of explaining to me how the industry in which I work functions, handing me a beginner's programming book, and at times, even just insulting my intelligence and putting words in my mouth.

Some of you may be familiar with my posts (likely as a novelty), and need no more explanation. I try to be articulate and grammatically correct, I proofread my posts when I remember, and I try to give all of the needed information. Though, I usually find that I don't give enough information; rather than ask for more, responses usually pick a direction and run, and it takes me all thread to get back to actually approaching the question, while I'm navigating a hail of down-votes. (I've tried asking the down-voters why they did so, so that I could try to learn from it. It often turns out that they just skimmed the thread, saw me disagreeing, and penalized me for not accepting the help that didn't actually solve my problem.)

So, I turn to the community for advice. Please don't interpret this as some sort of venting session; I'm legitimately asking for advice on how to better my communication skills. How can I ask better questions that won't result in me losing reputation just for having a tough question, and how can I offer better advice that won't result in the others turning on me for some reason and penalizing me for trying to help someone else? I'm doing the rational thing and assuming it's something about me, since it happens no matter where I go.

There are a couple points I want to make.

First, all of us seem to have this problem. I do and someone else I remember talking to did.

Second, since we all have this problem, it seems to be all about coping with it. Invest too much time in a social situation like a forum and you start to read into it too much. Whereas you just have to take an online situation like a forum like it is, an exchange of information. Sometimes this exchange of information works out, other times you see nothing but destructive behavior.

Basically one has to realize that we are not living in a perfect world, and the same applies online. It's not your fault, little of it is. But what you can do is just learn not to let it bother you.

When it comes to people calling you a beginner, you pretty much have three options. Ignore them, correct them with the risk of starting an argument or having them insult you further, or as a last resort, responding with sarcasm can be considered slightly rude but tends to give people the hint.

Emphasizing what Shane said, you really don't want to get too emotional on the internet.

Refrain from posting irrelevant remarks and just cut to the chase - be as objective as possible, especially when talking about technical stuff. Your opinion seldom changes the way code compiles, for instance.

If someone bashes you with personal attacks, ignore them and remember the phrase: "Don't feed the trolls".

http://lifehacker.com/5811255/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-on-the-internet

If you're going to put your thoughts out on the internet, then you need to learn to deal with negative people. Just don't try to do anything about them. You can't!

http://lifehacker.com/5811255/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-on-the-internet

If you're going to put your thoughts out on the internet, then you need to learn to deal with negative people. Just don't try to do anything about them. You can't!

I have heard something similar a long time ago, probably from a professor in a psychology class, that we tend to stay with what we believed in even though we have been proven wrong.

We don't want to be persuaded. Being persuaded is like admitting you lose. Admitting you were wrong is a blow to the ego. So when our opinions are under attack, we would try to find other sources that would back up our opinions. As the escalation proceeds, we would start to care less if our sources are credible. We might, under extreme conditions, cite sources that are completely bogus, just to show to the other people that we were correct and they were wrong.

Requests and replies are slightly different.

Make requests short, sweet, and to the point. When looking for something, consider using a TL;DR approach: Write the big thing you wanted to say, then write the TL;DR version that omits all the details, then erase the long comment.

Replies can be longer and detailed. I also write a lot and tend to be verbose. However, I tend to get positive feedback on the extra details. Maybe it is a difference in writing style, maybe it is something else. When providing information to others, I try to give the summary quickly, then be as verbose as necessary to communicate the point, give whatever supporting evidence you need, taking the required length for support.

Consider taking a class in communications, or studying a book on it. I've read several and I have taken courses in college, applying the principles can help improve clarity and get a better reception. Most teach a common set of guidelines. Understand your audience, and use language they are comfortable with. Use the inverse pyramidal writing style. Write in a positive tone --- programming requires thinking in negative terms, switching to positive forms can be difficult. Try to use 'softened' language and avoid words that people can contend with: Always, Never, Should, Shouldn't, Right, Wrong, Correct, Incorrect; if you don't have concrete examples or proof of absolutes, try to make it clear that it is your opinion. Seek input, make it clear you listen, provide win-win situations, enable people to save face on mistakes, and focus on the positive and successful outcomes. These are all common threads they teach.

The book How to Win Friends and Influence People is a bit dated but still has valuable advice about communications. Several of Steven Covey's Seven Habits books also cover communication. A visit to your library for those books will likely have several other books on effective communication and personal skills sitting next to them on the shelves. Read as many as you want.

First, all of us seem to have this problem. I do and someone else I remember talking to did.

I appreciate the empathy.

Invest too much time in a social situation like a forum and you start to read into it too much.

I suppose. Maybe people legitimately think they're helping.

Refrain from posting irrelevant remarks and just cut to the chase - be as objective as possible, especially when talking about technical stuff.

I do try to do just that. Sometimes, the slightest distraction takes a conversation way off topic. Sometimes, I wind up being too terse, and people draw their own conclusions.

Your opinion seldom changes the way code compiles, for instance.

I don't know what you mean by this; can you elaborate?

If someone bashes you with personal attacks, ignore them and remember the phrase: "Don't feed the trolls".

It's easier said than done; if a conversation (in person, online, over the phone) literally turns into everyone arguing against you, what choice do you have but to quit and leave?

http://lifehacker.com/5811255/why-you-cant-win-an-argument-on-the-internet

If you're going to put your thoughts out on the internet, then you need to learn to deal with negative people. Just don't try to do anything about them. You can't!

This thread isn't about winning arguments; my goal isn't to argue, be right, or win anything. I want to learn information, and provide information. I'd prefer if no arguments ever occurred. I understand what you're likely saying, and I've heard a lot of "get over it" advice in the past, but I want to head this off before it turns into a lecture on how to not be a sore loser.

Make requests short, sweet, and to the point.

It seems counter-intuitive. I type out a few paragraphs of information (which isn't friendly to passers by), and still find that some was missing.

One of the problems that I encounter is that I only ask for help when I've tried for weeks or months, with no solution: information is now abundant, the problem is likely NP-hard, and infinitely more information is required because no good solution can be found. Thus, when faced with an extremely difficult problem, people that expect fast and easy problems become frustrated, or lose sight of the issue and start suggesting things that aren't helpful, because they don't realize that "there's no solution" is a more valid answer than one that exists, but doesn't solve the problem.

Consider taking a class in communications, or studying a book on it.

I have, since it was required for my major, in addition to now owning the book from it.

Try to use 'softened' language and avoid words that people can contend with: Always, Never, Should, Shouldn't, Right, Wrong, Correct, Incorrect; if you don't have concrete examples or proof of absolutes, try to make it clear that it is your opinion.

Avoiding contentious words is good advice, and I don't remember whether I do or don't do it. The way I see it, programming is entirely opinionated: there are some requirements to make a well-formed program, but you can achieve the same result (with varying degrees of efficiency), much like saying the same thing in so many different ways in a spoken language. When expressing my opinions or techniques, I do make it explicit by saying things like "I do this when..." or "In my projects...", which I feel is passively conveying my experiences, rather than saying "You should..." or "It would be better if you..." However, I usually find out too late that my opinion isn't desired.

I have heard something similar a long time ago, probably from a professor in a psychology class, that we tend to stay with what we believed in even though we have been proven wrong.

We don't want to be persuaded. Being persuaded is like admitting you lose. Admitting you were wrong is a blow to the ego. So when our opinions are under attack, we would try to find other sources that would back up our opinions. As the escalation proceeds, we would start to care less if our sources are credible. We might, under extreme conditions, cite sources that are completely bogus, just to show to the other people that we were correct and they were wrong.

There's a book called Mistakes Were Made (but not by me) that covers this pretty well. If you ever need convincing that people are terrible--impossibly, unforgivably terrible--it's a good read. It covers things like confirmation bias (as I was reading it, I was thinking "holy ****, this is every internet argument ever"), how every politician justifies accepting bribes (err, I mean "lobbying") and passing corrupt laws, and why the "justice system" likes to pick an initial suspect and railroad them, becoming increasingly belligerent when confronted with absolute proof that their suspect is innocent. Numerous documented examples of each. It's scary stuff. Misanthropy inducing, even.

I've observed the whole spontaneous internet hate mob thing a few times, and been on the receiving end a few times. I'm always reminded of the end of Lord of the Flies when it happens. Sometimes all it takes is one particularly malicious individual to start things off, and then another joins in, and before you know what's happening even the formerly reasonable ones are foaming at the mouth and you've got a mob of what are essentially mindless, shrieking apes after you. All you can really do is walk away and try to take the experience as a cautionary tale about just how thin the veneer of civilized society is.

However, I usually find out too late that my opinion isn't desired.

Comments like this for example are unnecessary make you look resentful (I can easily imagine this sentence from a teenager who is about to commit suicide...).

Seems to be nitpicking, but in my opinion, these little details matter just as the general approach of someone's post. Your general approach may be good but these huffy comments will ruin your communication.

Maybe it would be better to ask a friend and analyse your posts sentence by sentence to see if this is a (The) problem.

However, I usually find out too late that my opinion isn't desired.

Comments like this for example are unnecessary make you look resentful (I can easily imagine this sentence from a teenager who is about to commit suicide...).

Seems to be nitpicking, but in my opinion, these little details matter just as the general approach of someone's post. Your general approach may be good but these huffy comments will ruin your communication.

Maybe it would be better to ask a friend and analyse your posts sentence by sentence to see if this is a (The) problem.

I have to agree with szecs, on several occasions i've noticed that you sometimes come off as a bit condescending to others in your responses, you might not think you write it like that, but here's one from this thread:

Invest too much time in a social situation like a forum and you start to read into it too much.

I suppose. Maybe people legitimately think they're helping.

I'm doubtful you meant for this to sound bad, but when i read this line it makes me think that your giving a bit of a snide remark to people.