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Your View on Programming

Started by February 24, 2014 07:09 PM
54 comments, last by JTippetts 10 years, 11 months ago

In general, create anything you desire, whether it is a browser, game engine, website, calculator, *OS* etc.without the need to type 2 million lines of code and use any more than 1 language. Absolute control in the hands of the programmer. The only limitation being your mind and imagination.

That'll be a neat trick. What are you going to do with your billions of dollars?
Infinte Loop {
Helping wherever i can, figuring out ways to make life easier, donating to charity, building schools, making my tech better etc.
Beating the competition :).
}

UNREAL ENGINE 4:
Total LOC: ~3M Lines
Total Languages: ~32

--
GREAT QUOTES:
I can do ALL things through Christ - Jesus Christ
--
Logic will get you from A-Z, imagination gets you everywhere - Albert Einstein
--
The problems of the world cannot be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. - John F. Kennedy

I would love to see more non-imperative languages in the mainstream.

Language primitives for parallelism, verification, mathematical concepts, etc.

Current languages like C++ or Java feel hackish often. The program performing correctly is often just a happy coincidence, not a fundamental feature of the language used.

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You will grow up from this ONE MEGA tool/game/movie thing.


There is one thing that scares me because i think it's too hard.

It is too hard. That's why no one's done it, and why no one with the necessary pedigree is seriously working on it. You have stated requirements that work at cross-purposes -- namely, that you wish to have the ability to express any kind of program using a single language that requires 1 or 2 orders of magnitude fewer lines of code.

In other words, you want to be able to express identical complexity using between only 1-10% of the code. You bump up against a kind of entropy where you cannot summarize complex ideas so much without introducing ambiguity to the summary itself. You can't really compile ambiguity, not in any known way that's performant or stable.

Think of it another way -- Take a big novel like War and Piece, which was about 1200 pages in its first printing. Your proposal is not only that you (a human being) can somehow re-write the story in somewhere between 12 and 120 pages while retaining all of its impact, detail, and depth, but also that you can create a a computer program (a 'compiler', if you will) that can parse those 12-120 pages, and from that fully recreate the exact text of the original War and Piece-- all 1200 pages. Letter-for-letter, every time, and in a way that can be predicted by you when writing the source text.

To even dream of achieving such a thing would require such a cryptic, legalese style of writing that producing 120 pages of it would be even less desirable than producing 1200 pages of natural language.

I believe the technical term for ideas of this ilk is "pipe dream".

throw table_exception("(? ???)? ? ???");

There is one thing that scares me because i think it's too hard.

Think of it another way -- Take a big novel like War and Piece, which was about 1200 pages in its first printing. Your proposal is not only that you (a human being) can somehow re-write the story in somewhere between 12 and 120 pages
The hard part wasn't for this. It was about my scare with networking or implementing it.
I read that programming languages and natural languages shouldn't be the same. Inform 7 is the one that doesn't follow this rule at all.
For instance, representing the quadratic formula method in words is definitely more than representing in its formula format.

UNREAL ENGINE 4:
Total LOC: ~3M Lines
Total Languages: ~32

--
GREAT QUOTES:
I can do ALL things through Christ - Jesus Christ
--
Logic will get you from A-Z, imagination gets you everywhere - Albert Einstein
--
The problems of the world cannot be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. - John F. Kennedy

I believe the technical term for ideas of this ilk is "pipe dream".


Do you think making a real J.A.R.V.I.S is a "pipe-dream"? I just need the answer and hope it doesn't seem like a trick question.

UNREAL ENGINE 4:
Total LOC: ~3M Lines
Total Languages: ~32

--
GREAT QUOTES:
I can do ALL things through Christ - Jesus Christ
--
Logic will get you from A-Z, imagination gets you everywhere - Albert Einstein
--
The problems of the world cannot be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. - John F. Kennedy

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I believe the technical term for ideas of this ilk is "pipe dream".

Not a pipe dream but a kindergarden dreams, i feel a sudden (and rapid) 10X downgrade in my personal inteligence when reading this

I believe the technical term for ideas of this ilk is "pipe dream".

Not a pipe dream but a kindergarden dreams, i feel a sudden (and rapid) 10X downgrade in my personal inteligence when reading this
Thanks.
I remember my first post on this site. It was about modifying a game engine. I needed this for a game i needed to make but i changed my mind and decided to make it from scratch. I knew that the game assets will increase the time spent making a game and i got an idea. It was a tool that enabled you to create any asset with mouse clicks. I protected this idea and saw it as great. I posted something about it on this forum but didn't go into detail on it's functionality. It was going to be the best tool for 3d stuff and it existed no where. People here told me i was being unrealistic and it wasn't possible. That was until i was given a link to 3sweep and to my greatest shock, i saw my pipe-dream in full detail. It did exactly what i had in mind.
I've had ideas, many ideas. That's why i asked the question on the possibility of J.A.R.V.I.S. Fir said it is a kindergarten dream. Google has proven every not-possible/pipe-dream wrong. J.A.R.V.I.S isn't just possible, it is in version 0.2. The team of less than 20, mostly below the age of 23 making Jarvis OS prove that. Yet another pipe-dream made reality. Their team isn't nearly as large Microsoft but they've done what Microsoft hasn't and couldn't and weren't discouraged by the fact that no one or tech giant including Microsoft and Apple has done it and it was seen as a pipe-dream and their team was small. They designed a whole new OS architecture different from what exists. Jarvis Corp.

I wish i started programming earlier. I would have been the one that made those. This idea is one of the only ones i've had that google hasn't shown it exists. I don't see my ideas as hard, infact, they are easy because people with more experience are making my ideas real. A month ago, i would not share this much detail about an idea because i didn't want it to be stolen but i am. I'm waiting for the article or link to something showing this current idea in production and hoping no one is doing it in secrecy.



UNREAL ENGINE 4:
Total LOC: ~3M Lines
Total Languages: ~32

--
GREAT QUOTES:
I can do ALL things through Christ - Jesus Christ
--
Logic will get you from A-Z, imagination gets you everywhere - Albert Einstein
--
The problems of the world cannot be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. - John F. Kennedy


I wish i started programming earlier. I would have been the one that made those. This idea is one of the only ones i've had that google hasn't shown it exists. I don't see my ideas as hard, infact, they are easy because people with more experience are making my ideas real. A month ago, i would not share this much detail about an idea because i didn't want it to be stolen but i am. I'm waiting for the article or link to something showing this current idea in production and hoping no one is doing it in secrecy.

Apart from things that violate the laws of physics, nothing is impossible. Throw enough skill, experience and money at it and you can solve any problem.

However, and this is going to sound harsh, there are plenty of things that are impossible for you.

Don't take that badly. There are plenty of things that are impossible for almost everyone.

You have two problems.

The first is experience; in meaningful terms, you have none. Right now, you don't even know what you don't know. There's nothing wrong with that. We've all been there and with hard work, you may very well become the next Carmack for all I know.

The other is manpower. As a general rule, very little programming is accomplished in isolation these days.

Finally, that JarvisOS is nothing at all even remotely like the fictional system in Iron Man. It's almost certainly a custom linux distribution with a few voice commands. So yeah, having a computer with a holo interface, natural language processing and natural sounding speech generated on the fly is definitely a pipe dream right now.

if you think programming is like sex, you probably haven't done much of either.-------------- - capn_midnight
Do you mean the J.A.R.V.I.S. from Iron Man? I've never read the comics, but I would hardly call the J.A.R.V.I.S. from the movie a programming language. It's more of a AI personal assistant / modelling tool. Through my nerd glasses, I didn't see any programming being done in those movies. Is something like J.A.R.V.I.S. possible? Sure why not, but probably not anywhere near extent seen in the movie. I don't think it would work for programming though.

A similar programming tool wouldn't be a tool to help programmers. It would itself have to be an automated programmer. You tell it what to build and it does it. This would be a command, "J.A.R.V.I.S., build me an OS that's a cross between iOS and Windows 8, but make it more awesome and without any bugs." But that command would be easy compared to "J.A.R.V.I.S., make version 2.0 of yourself."

In my opinion, visual tools have one major limit. You can only use the tools built into the system. You need some kind of text (I guess recorded speach would work, but it would be wasteful) to describe new techniques and algorithms. The important of this can be seen in programmable shaders. A fixed-function graphics pipeline is easier, but very limitting. With programmable shaders, you can develop new techniques.

I'm a very visual person, but like many programmers, I'm a typical left brain thinker, ie I'm good at logic and putting things in structured text. A touchscreen based UML tool with voice commands would be good for planning. And it would be nice if it could auto-generate some of the coding. Such a program is very possible with today's technology. It's ironic because to build the system you want, it'll take millions of lines of code in multiple languages from programmers typing text.

But dream on. There's no creation without imagination. I don't argue over whether something is possible or not. If it's truly impossible, no one will make it. If it's possible, one day someone will. Besides, I think the original poster was more focussed on what he dreams to happen, not what he wants to build. He may want to build it, but he never said he has the ability.







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