It’s not possible that anyone could truly believe he or she would actually end up as a result of one of their filters/searches...

Unless you're a Christian. Because, ya' know, the final book of the bible indicates that every nation (including the United States) will turn against A) The Jews, B) the Christians, and kill them on a massive scale. I'm not saying this as proof that it will occur, just that it is fully possible to believe it, and that I myself believe it and am not alone in that belief. It's not an irrational belief, according to history.

2+ billion are Christian, and a decent percentage (I'd guess 5% - 100 million) believe that Christians and Jews will get increasingly persecuted worldwide, and the percentage of Christians that hold to that belief is growing. And hey, it happened in China in the last 50 years. Happened in Russia in the last 100 years. Happened in Germany 75 years ago. And hey, it happens in the Middle East today (but not on a massive scale - because the Christian and Jew population of the Middle East has already been almost entirely suppressed over the past 400 years). Racial cleansing on a massive scale, religious extermination on a massive scale.

Just because, today, the United States government is rather mild compared to past dictatorships doesn't mean that it'll permanently be that way.

You're Japanese right? If Japan collects information on you, and China ever conquers Japan, China is going to persecute people of Japanese descent, and will automatically know what your ethnicity is. Again, happened in Germany (using the exact same kind of computer system we're talking about). Hey, happened in the United States. Thankfully, the US only took the possessions of, and imprisoned, people of Japanese descent, instead of torturing them and murdering them like has happened to other ethnicities or religions in Russia, China, Germany, and the Middle East. We're talking about modern, ostensibly "civilized" countries here, otherwise I'd have to list every single nation on the planet.

Today, the FBI having the data won't harm anything, and might help things. Tomorrow, it will be a horrible threat to whoever is disliked by those in power. Data, once given, cannot easily be taken away. Let's use historical precedent here, and let's remember we are dealing with humans, who appear on the surface to be decent people, and then turn into horrible beasts given the right opportunities or desperate situations. Humans are not mostly good, despite what you want to believe. Giving them more tools to easily find who they are wanting to oppress or kill is not a good idea, because when the opportunities come or when a desperate circumstance arises, people will slit each other's throats for a drop of water, an ounce of gold, or over an inferred insult.

Giving them more tools to easily find who they are wanting to oppress or kill is not a good idea, because when the opportunities come or when a desperate circumstance arises, people will slit each other's throats for a drop of water, an ounce of gold, or over an inferred insult.

This is definitely the truth. The US has a terrible history with the treatment of its citizens, from the basic genocide of Native Americans, oppression of religious groups and execution of heretics, the long overdue banning of slavery, the mistreatment of women, internment of the Japanese, and hatred for entire ethnic and religious groups (Middle Easterners, Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Germans, British), to the point where people hate anything that even looks like someone their country fought before. I missed quite a few events, but who knows what will happen with the government. Another country may try to invade the US and call for sleeper cells to rise up and destroy major cities, and because I am the same ethnicity or had a suspicious hobby, I may be put in an internment camp next, for the good of the country.

Now, this isn't to say that such an occurrence is likely. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy fanatic. I'm mostly irritated by the breach of privacy by them demanding data that they shouldn't be able to rightfully access, but events like this have happened before. It can't be ruled out.

Firstly, mostly good replies so far. No one got baited when I suggested that those bombers were guilty at birth—I hope that is because everyone though it was too outlandish to be true rather than because they agreed with it.

I am actually indifferent on this topic, but no one else is representing the other side so I am.

I took this stance because being indifferent on the subject matter seems to somehow be a unique perspective and it allows me to see something about the only side being represented here that those representing it seem not to see. I want to ask a very simple question: “Why are you against this?” But you have all already answered.
There is a conspiracy theory. There is too much control being granted to someone else. There is invasion of privacy. Etc. etc.

Asking “why are you against this” won’t get me past the outer shell of defense. So let me ask a deeper question. “Are your reasons for being against this realistic, or are they just an automatic defensive response to the initial (and entirely imaginary) concept of an invasion of privacy?”

You’ve all just immediately thrown up a wall of defense without even thinking about how necessary such defense really is. For example, if getting added to FBI’s database again resulted in my chances of getting a random anal probe shooting up by 1,000,000%, that would still be a 0% chance. Someone actually proposed the idea of getting strip-searched (I wanted Monica to win by the way) randomly, exemplifying how unrealistic our thoughts can get when we imagine the worst possible side of something on instinct. And an instinctual reaction is all this is. Hodgman said so himself.

These days with modern technology, their job is even easier. They automatically collect and collate files on all of us, whether we rank as a risk or not.

We are all already in their database. For how many of you has that resulted in a random anal probe? 0? Thanks for playing.

Having a second copy of your information in their database isn’t going to change anything in your lives. You sit there and bring up all these excuses for why it is so wrong for them to have your information, but none of what you say actually matters when you consider the fact that they already do have your information. It’s you playing up your fears regarding invasion of privacy, and next week it will be forgotten and on to a new topic. Pretending there is actually a chance of a strip-search ever happening in your life for any reason is nothing but a way to placate an active mind. Good to have an active mind though.

Initially I was on the sidelines because the first thing that came to my mind was that I am already in some database or another and that’s never impacted my life at all, nor will it ever. But I kept seeing people saying how terrible it would be for Google to give its database to the FBI, and I had to ask myself, “Are they not aware that they are already in FBI’s database?” So I am watching these people go on about how terrible being in an FBI database is when they are actually already in it, and I have to step in.

Additionally, no one has addressed the statistical anomaly of being singled out in a database of over 1,000,000,000 users. A wise choice not to even challenge that one! Somehow you can dream up fears of randomly being strip-searched but when we break it down into numbers (something on which it is harder to let the imagination run) you don’t dare step up to the plate (wisely so).

So, here is what is happening.

A bunch of people heard that a database, which includes their personal information, might be given to the FBI.

For whatever reason, these people forget that that database also includes over 1 billion others’ information. Easy to care only about yourself or for some reason think that your information matters more than Brad Pitt’s. Because if someone else gets punched in the face you don’t feel it.

Imaginations flare. “My infos!” …yeah, your infos. My password got leaked when Anonymous hacked some site a few years ago. The site was about hacking, and as the author of Memory Hacking Software I would have been a prime target, yet nothing. How many of you fell victim to the PlayStation Network hack recently? Oh no your infos!…were completely ignored by the perpetrators.

That you would ever be singled out in any attack is all in your imagination. But it’s fun so let’s do it!

And then next week a new topic is posted and this one is forgotten. And no matter what is said in this topic nor what actually happens between the FBI and Google, your lives will remain 100% unchanged. I guarantee it.

Inside we all know that. But that is boring. We want something to discuss.

I just wish we had something with more…realism or substance. Something plausible at least. And not something that is only an issue just because now someone is talking about it. You’re already in their databases, as Hodgman so kindly mentioned. You are just thinking about it now because someone mentioned it, and soon you will be back to your regularly scheduled programs.

L. Spiro

[EDIT]

I feel unusually bad about this post. I can’t put my finger on it but I am not saying what I want to say how I want to say it or something. I am trying to represent the other side and I want to use strong language (and even to be an ass, like in a tasteful manner. Like a tasteful ass. Like—that didn’t come out right) to make an impact, but I’m off somewhere.

I can’t find the specific point I would edit, so I am just letting it out there with this disclaimer that my views are not necessarily my own I am trying to take a side that is not necessarily my own and I don’t seem to be so skillful at articulating things about which I do not feel passionately.

The general idea that anything we discuss here will be forgotten a week later could be applied to any topic, but this one is irking in a manner because it’s the only topic where people seem to think otherwise. They seem to really believe that something between the FBI and Google will actually impact them.

My presentation is terribly off here as I am trying to defend a view that is not really my own. I apologize in advance (I assume that you, like me, read everything bottom-up, as all normal humans do, so this should be the first thing you read).

[/EDIT]

I don't now about all you guys, but my life is pretty cushy.

We don't live in the middle ages anymore.

At least where I live(of course there are many places around the world where this isn't so), I don't have to worry so much about famine or plague.

If someone stealing my information is the top of my worries, then I think I'm living a pretty good life.

People's priorities are screwed up. Be happy and help other people. Do things that make you feel happy and/or help other people.

If there are some corrupt dudes somewhere fighting over some money or blowing each others heads off, if there is nothing I can do about it, then I should probably just ignore it, because worrying only makes it seem worse, and doesn't really help.

For me, the issue isn't "OMG, I'm the FBI database!". Though I'd rather not be. It's "why am I in there in the first place? And why can they obtain my information without a warrant?" If all of my information has been collected already and I'm already in the FBI database, then they certainly don't need Google to give them information. They already have it. If I've done nothing wrong and they have no case against me, why do they need my web-surfing habits and what other personal info associated with that? If they do have a case against me, then why can't they produce a warrant to get said information. We have a Constitutional law against illegal search and seizure for a reason.

But now, I'm supposed to be ok with having my information or more of my information in some criminal or law enforcement database because some other company has a log that I shopped at eBay and I wore brown swimming trunks at the Chesapeake Bay? Yeah, I don't think so.

A lot of people still remember the Cold War, and USSR

All it took was any hint that you may, kinda, slightly, sorta have anything against the government, you disappeared.

There are tens of thousands of testimonials of folks who were tortured into signing confessions ... There are literally millions of citizens still unaccounted for ...

I never trusted the US government, and seeing the whole IRS scandal doesn't help matters.

I wonder what my "database" profile says, since I own a copy of "My Struggle", I bought uranium marbles, and have done many searches for electronic engineering subjects.

I'm not going to be harassed by the authorities any time soon, but good, innocent people are. We have good people being banned from flying, or harassed at airports/train-stations for political (not terror/crime/security) purposes, we have political prisoners, we have innocent people being beaten and kidnapped for political reasons, we have innocent people being abducted and tortured, we have innocent people being harassed to the point where they commit suicide. These aren't conspiracy theories. This is realism. This is real life. Today, in 2013. Nothing has changed.

I'm not being harmed, but other good people are. But because it's not me, I shouldn't care? That kind of logic only flies in America...

Let's all ignore history and reality and bury out heads in the sand though...

And for all you know, maybe you will become one of the politically persecuted in the future. If your family is given brain tumours by a CSG company, would you join the environmental protest groups? Say you do, maybe you gain enough influence in the activist community to warrant a knock on your door from the watch dogs, who are there to keep 'troublemakers' like you in line. Maybe you become the next Gabe Newell, make a billion dollars, and use it to build a self sufficient techno-utopia, which you then begin exporting to the world (undermining the powers-that-be's control over world's economies). Who knows what kind of political shitstorm you could find yourself in in the future. One of the founding ideals of the US though is that the citizenry needs to be able to defy their government if it becomes too tyrannical.

It's pretty obvious to everyone outside of the US that the US is going to collapse one day - if that happens, they'll put the Stasi to shame. Good luck defending your liberties in that situation - the 2nd amendment right to arms will mean nothing when you can't organize yourselves.

If the right to privacy isn't at all important, then it's incredibly strange and ironic that these state watchdogs are using their massive caches of information to hunt down and suppress those who expose secrets, like Wikileaks, right? If it's not a big deal for private details to be public, then no one should give two shits about Bradley Manning either, but seeing as he's been tortured for stealing secrets, it seems there's a bit of a double standard. The rulers can have privacy but those who are ruled cannot?

I'm not being harmed, but other good people are. But because it's not me, I shouldn't care? That kind of logic only flies in America...

And yet, no American that has posted has even mentioned or implied such a thing. Smh.

I was on the side where L Spiro was, but I wasn't sure. And after some thinking (that I'm pretty bad at) I'm convinced that it's actually a bad thing to give up personal data (no matter if it has already happened). Everyone has something that makes one suspicious. In Cambodia, people were killed just because they wore glasses.

I can be killed/jailed because I wear glasses or I stutter which makes me look retarded to some, or I have a Serbian sounding name, or I don't do physical work or I would happily leave my country forever or I believe that the Finn and Hungarian languages are related (which is quite a sin for Hungarian right-wingers). And I'm an attention whore and I talked about it on some forums.

I'm not being harmed, but other good people are. But because it's not me, I shouldn't care? That kind of logic only flies in America...

And yet, no American that has posted has even mentioned or implied such a thing. Smh.

Um, except L. Spiro...

And even if he didn't, and even if I wasn't just making an opportunistic jab, the thread is about American citizens losing their rights, and it's pretty fair to say that America has a culture of selfishness, and that these opinions of indifference towards the loss of civil liberties are heavily popularized there...