This is actually something that I wish was absolutely clear in the Bible, and to me at least, despite what the author in the link claims, is not clear. The quote from Jesus about how He fulfilled the law, not abolished it casts doubt on the whole situation, even after I read the explanation in the comments. I can't imagine why He'd say that if He didn't intend for the law to continue.

It would be nice if it were more clear. I definitely can't help but feel that it would be nice to be able to read it in it's original language as I feel some ambiguity just comes from the translation.

science:
http://amasci.com/weird/vindac.html
http://amasci.com/fr...g/arrhenus.html
http://amasci.com/weird/globe.txt
http://amasci.com/weird/stmlaf.html
http://amasci.com/freenrg/evolv.txt

Now tell us what your point is. These scientists were mocked, ridiculed, perhaps even reviled, and they turned out correct. Now tell us what your point is. How does this have any bearing on the conversation at hand?

Politics:
China and Russia killed close to 100,000,000 people in the 20th century alone for purely political reasons.
Socrates was tried and killed for his political standing.
[/quote]
Yes. People are killed for politics, by ignorant ideologues who can't be made to listen to reason or logic. What is your point? You seem to be agreeing with my point here.

Video games:
http://blog.clevelan...hot_dad_ov.html
http://articles.nyda...d-apartment-boy
[/quote]
Um... a boy kills his parents because they took Halo away. How does that senselessness have any bearing on what we're talking about? What is your point?

1. You hold religious people to a different standard.[/quote]
You haven't shown that I hold religious people to a different standard than I hold any other people who don't form their beliefs through logic and reason.

2. That the majority of the world being religious is a problem.[/quote]
Yes, I don't deny that one. Most logical and reasonable people feel this way.

3. That religion is somehow counter to logic and reason, when there are plenty of people who's religious beliefs are perfectly consistent with logic and known science.[/quote]
This is laughable, and if it was the case there wouldn't be such a lack of scientists who are religious.

[quote name='Telgin' timestamp='1311863464' post='4841602']
I agree that extreme fundamentalism is bad. The problem as I see it is that there's only supposed to be one way to interpret the Bible, and that is the literal way. It quite literally tells you to kill people who do certain things (such as homosexuals). If you don't believe that way, then why not? Are your morals more important than God's instructions?

http://www.ccmlinks....osts.php?id=467

this says pretty much what I'd say anyway, so I'll just post it. The above in mind it kind of answers your question below, as I would still consider them evil.
[/quote]

Herp derp, surprise surprise not all Christians agree with what you have linked there. Refer to Matthew 5:18:

For verily I say unto you, Tillheaven and earth pass, one jot or onetittle shall in no wise pass fromthe law, till all be fulfilled.
[/quote]

Those were words spoken by Jesus during the Sermon on the Mound. Your link references letters written by the apostle Paul after Jesus' death. Personally between the two, I would consider the living son of God's words to hold infinite more weight than that of a single man. Especially since throughout history there have been many many people who claimed that God spoke to them and told them this or that, and we don't believe all of them. But most people choose to ignore this verse because to follow the Old Testament would be greatly inconvenient for them, since most do not wish to kill others for arbitrary reasons like buying something on a Sunday and they wish to enjoy eating delicious shellfish (Leviticus 11:9-12).

Now tell us what your point is. These scientists were mocked, ridiculed, perhaps even reviled, and they turned out correct. Now tell us what your point is. How does this have any bearing on the conversation at hand?
Yes. People are killed for politics, by ignorant ideologues who can't be made to listen to reason or logic. What is your point? You seem to be agreeing with my point here.
Um... a boy kills his parents because they took Halo away. How does that senselessness have any bearing on what we're talking about? What is your point?

That stupid extremists do stupid things. It has nothing to do with being religious. It has to do with being an extremist.

You haven't shown that I hold religious people to a different standard than I hold any other people who don't form their beliefs through logic and reason. [/quote]

So if the problem is not specific to religion, why pick on the religious? Because religion is the most blatant and obvious example of this sort of ignorance. The majority of the world is religious, and that's a serious problem if you believe that the world will be a better place when people act according to logic and reason.[/quote]
Clearly not.

Yes, I don't deny that one. Most logical and reasonable people feel this way.[/quote]
most logical and reasonable people feel this way? Care to cite a source?

3. That religion is somehow counter to logic and reason, when there are plenty of people who's religious beliefs are perfectly consistent with logic and known science.[/quote]
This is laughable, and if it was the case there wouldn't be such a lack of scientists who are religious.
[/quote]
Why do you think there is a lack of religious scientists? There are quite literally millions of religious scientists.

Herp derp, surprise surprise not all Christians agree with what you have linked there. Refer to Matthew 5:18:

For verily I say unto you, Tillheaven and earth pass, one jot or onetittle shall in no wise pass fromthe law, till all be fulfilled.

Those were words spoken by Jesus during the Sermon on the Mound. Your link references letters written by the apostle Paul after Jesus' death. Personally between the two, I would consider the living son of God's words to hold infinite more weight than that of a single man. Especially since throughout history there have been many many people who claimed that God spoke to them and told them this or that, and we don't believe all of them. But most people choose to ignore this verse because to follow the Old Testament would be greatly inconvenient for them, since most do not wish to kill others for arbitrary reasons like buying something on a Sunday and they wish to enjoy eating delicious shellfish (Leviticus 11:9-12).
[/quote]
http://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html

Thanks for jumping straight to insinuating I were mentally retarded just because you disagree with me. It's nice to know that we can converse as adults rather than children.

Man, for a supposedly perfect omniscient being, yahweh was a really shitty communicator. Being all powerful and what not, you'd think he'd take step if people were misquoting him (and he obvioulsy knows people are misquoting him, given he's, ya know, gawd and stuff? )

Besides, what's up with god changing his mind? Was he just playing with all the people who lived before jc? What about about all those guys who were banned for being kicked in the nuts? Did they get an apology?

[quote name='Roots' timestamp='1311882339' post='4841799']
Herp derp, surprise surprise not all Christians agree with what you have linked there. Refer to Matthew 5:18:

For verily I say unto you, Tillheaven and earth pass, one jot or onetittle shall in no wise pass fromthe law, till all be fulfilled.

Those were words spoken by Jesus during the Sermon on the Mound. Your link references letters written by the apostle Paul after Jesus' death. Personally between the two, I would consider the living son of God's words to hold infinite more weight than that of a single man. Especially since throughout history there have been many many people who claimed that God spoke to them and told them this or that, and we don't believe all of them. But most people choose to ignore this verse because to follow the Old Testament would be greatly inconvenient for them, since most do not wish to kill others for arbitrary reasons like buying something on a Sunday and they wish to enjoy eating delicious shellfish (Leviticus 11:9-12).
[/quote]
http://www.gotquesti...ulfill-law.html

Thanks for jumping straight to insinuating I were mentally retarded just because you disagree with me. It's nice to know that we can converse as adults rather than children.
[/quote]

Wow, when did I insinuate that? I was merely pointing out that not all Christians agree that they don't have to follow Mosaic law anymore and where the bible contradicts what you linked to earlier. If you feel insulted by that and think that its childish for me to bring it up, I don't know what to tell you.


This is one of the reasons its so difficult to converse with many religious people (not necessarily speaking about you way2). They take criticism of their beliefs and holy texts so damn personally that everything you say they treat as an insult. They feel like that anyone who criticizes the actions or nature of their god might as well be spitting right in their face. That's what a dogmatic mindset will do to you.

[quote name='rozz666' timestamp='1311832386' post='4841455']
No. I want your answers, short, and to the point. Or you don't have your own opinion and just agree with whatever is in the Bible.
[color="#1C2837"]Explain how the flood or killing all man, woman and children except for virgins, sending plagues to show off, stoning disobedient children is good.

There aren't short simple answers to them. There are long answers and they are all in the Bible.
[/quote]
OK. Write your long answer about the second one (killing everyone except for virgins).

History is filled with scientists who have had their lives ruined by other scientists because they presented controversial, though correct, theories.

Examples?

Anyhow, there are ignorant atheists as he said, and there may well be ignorant scientists. I don't think anyone's disputing this. But there seems to be a tone of:

"But Officer, other people are ignorant and irrational too!"

I've never understood how that line is an argument for religion. It's not a competition between theists and atheists. When people criticise religious belief, they're not claiming that all non-religious people are perfect. And when people advocate the scientific method, I don't think some scientists (i.e., people) being irrational is a flaw against the method.

[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1311884009' post='4841816']
Thanks for jumping straight to insinuating I were mentally retarded just because you disagree with me. It's nice to know that we can converse as adults rather than children.

Wow, when did I insinuate that?[/quote]

Herp derp,

I was merely pointing out that not all Christians agree that they don't have to follow Mosaic law anymore and where the bible contradicts what you linked to earlier. If you feel insulted by that and think that its childish for me to bring it up, I don't know what to tell you.[/quote]
It's not a contradiction. See my link. It could be interpreted a couple different ways, but the belief of most Christians is explained in the link and is not contradictory at all.

This is one of the reasons its so difficult to converse with many religious people (not necessarily speaking about you way2). They take criticism of their beliefs and holy texts so damn personally that everything you say they treat as an insult. They feel like that anyone who criticizes the actions or nature of their god might as well be spitting right in their face. That's what a dogmatic mindset will do to you.
[/quote]
I don't take criticism of my beliefs and holy texts seriously. I take being called a delusional shit eating monkey and being looked at as an idiot just because I am religious personally, because it IS PERSONAL.

Examples?

see my links posted a bit earlier.

Anyhow, there are ignorant atheists as he said, and there may well be ignorant scientists. I don't think anyone's disputing this. But there seems to be a tone of:

"But Officer, other people are ignorant and irrational too!"[/quote]
Like I said before. I am not arguing for religion as an answer to everything. I am arguing for religious people to not be looked at like idiots because they are religious. To use your "But officer..." scenario it's the same as the presumption of innocence in most western legal systems. It is not an excuse for being stupid. Religious people have every chance to be as stupid/ignorant as anybody, but that doesn't mean that all religious people are stupid/ignorant.