[quote name='rozz666']
[quote name='Machaira' timestamp='1311272190' post='4838554']
[quote name='A Brain in a Vat' timestamp='1311271063' post='4838548']
This is absolutely ridiculous. By your logic it's impossible to state any negative statement at all without inserting "I believe".

Umm, use your common sense? I can't tell if you're being difficult on purpose or what.
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Do you believe something is true until evidence shows otherwise false, or do you not believe something until evidence shows it's most probably true?
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This depends entirely upon the claim that is being asserted. If I meet a stranger off the street and he says "Hi, my name is Bob." I would assume that his claim to be true. I don't have any reason why he would be using a false name to identify himself, and even if it were not his true name it really does not matter.

[/quote]

If you assumed his name doesn't matter, then considering whether it's true what he said doesn't matter. Therefore let's assume it does matter, so we can discuss this example :-) You know that people have names. You know that there are people named Bob. You know that people usually don't lie when asked about their names. Therefore (as the evidence suggests) it's reasonable to assume that his name may be Bob. Likewise, we don't know of any supernatural creatures creating universes, therefore... :-)

I agree with the rest of your post.

[quote name='A Brain in a Vat' timestamp='1311268321' post='4838525']
[quote name='Machaira' timestamp='1311267734' post='4838517']
So you found proof that the Bible is a fairy tale book?!? Wow, can you share that proof with the rest of us?

Oh, I get it, you're just being a troll.

This is what I mean. This is why it is so incredibly frustrating for those of us who are just trying to get believers to use simple logic.

Machaira, let's try something out. Will you share proof with the rest of us that the Easter Bunny isn't real?

I'll give you a hint. You can't. You can't prove that the Easter Bunny isn't real. Could a magical omnipresent candy-laying vaguely god-related rabbit exist? I can't prove it's impossible. That's why that's not how it works. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It is you who has the burden of proof to show that the Easter Bunny exists, because the default answer any reasonable person comes to is "Nope, I have no reason to think it exists."

Now how is god or the bible different from the Easter Bunny? Is there more proof? Is he less magical? Is the very concept any less divergent from what we know of how the universe works by experience and logic?

Much of science is very skeptical about superstring theory and M theory because they so far fail to provide testable predictions. This is why we choose science as a means by which to define Truth. It is self-regulating. Lack of falsifiability means we don't accept this theory as true. At least superstring theory is internally consistent though. Religion can't be said to even be that.
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Can you prove there is such thing as free will?
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No. We don't know whether we have free will.
I think you are confusing proof with evidence. Only in math we can prove things. When making model of the world, we use evidence and make the simplest (using least number of assumptions) models.
I think I make decisions, however I don't know whether everything is deterministic, therefore I don't know whether free will exists.

How about love?

Love is not en entity. It's a set of behaviours, brain states etc. and we can observe these behaviours.

Therefore, fairies, the Easter bunny, God, ... most certainly do not exist in any shape or form.

Yes - we have no evidence.

Therefore, ..., free will, ... most certainly do not exist in any shape or form.

As I wrote - we don't know. We have evidence that points both ways.

If you believe your brain is something more than dumb colliding particles, you are delusional, ignorant, and stupid.

Who said I do? A brain made of particles only doesn't deny free will.

Free will is no more proven or defined than fairies and the Flying Spagghetti Monster. Actually, it is even less defined.

I'd argue that faires are least defined, then free will, then FSM :-)

...stuff...

You claim that we 'don't know' about free will(yet 'you think you make decisions'), but state definitively that God is a fairy tale. Yet there is no evidence for any of them. Why the difference? Why free will isn't a fairy tale or a delusion, plainly and clearly?

Besides, what I asked was if you think believing in free will is as ignorant and delusional as believing in God, and if not, then again, why the difference.

Also, the holocaust happened because of religious issues? Well, if you count National Socialism as a religion I suppose, but still...

A bunch of Christians (they had "Gott mit uns" on their uniforms) killed millions of Jews. Explain to me how it was not related to religious issues. Yeah, some of the motivating factors behind the people in power might have been economic or political, but religion is the tool used time and again to get ordinary people to commit atrocities.

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
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A bunch of Christians (they had "Gott mit uns" on their uniforms) killed millions of Jews. Explain to me how it was not related to religious issues. Yeah, some of the motivating factors behind the people in power might have been economic or political, but religion is the tool used time and again to get ordinary people to commit atrocities.

So, because on one side you've got Christians, and on the other Jews, you derive that the holocaust was due to religious issues? Seriously? In the exact same historical context, a bunch of Christians allied with other Christians and a bunch of Tao-ists/atheists/what-have-you(Japanese) against other Christians and other atheists(the Soviets). Does that make any sense, inside your view? It was political and economical reasons. The quote below is 100% wrong. The absolute one thing that always has, and always will, make good and bad people commit attrocities is hunger, economical uncertainty, and strife for power.

@mikeman if you answer my post, can you please answer particular statements instead of just quoting "...stuff..."?

You claim that we 'don't know' about free will(yet 'you think you make decisions'),

Yes, I think, not know. I may be wrong.
Most of physical laws are deterministic, which suggest there is no free will.
Yet, we have quantum physics, which is not determinisic, which suggest there can be free will.
Anyways, you've made a good points and I agree. Based on my knowledge of free will, physics etc. I have to say there is probably no free will.
If you have evidence that shows there is, I'd like to discuss that ass it is an interesting topic :-)

but state definitively that God is a fairy tale.

I did not state definitely - I said we have no evidence.

Yet there is no evidence for any of them.

I'm glad you've acknowledged that there is no evidence for a god :-)

Why free will isn't a fairy tale or a delusion, plainly and clearly?

I don't know if it's a delusion or not. As I wrote, from my perspective it probably is.

[quote name='ChaosEngine' timestamp='1311281926' post='4838648']
A bunch of Christians (they had "Gott mit uns" on their uniforms) killed millions of Jews. Explain to me how it was not related to religious issues. Yeah, some of the motivating factors behind the people in power might have been economic or political, but religion is the tool used time and again to get ordinary people to commit atrocities.

So, because on one side you've got Christians, and on the other Jews, you derive that the holocaust was due to religious issues? Seriously? In the exact same historical context, a bunch of Christians allied with other Christians and a bunch of Tao-ists/atheists/what-have-you(Japanese) against other Christians and other atheists(the Soviets).
[/quote]

Oh FFS, they singled out members of a specific religion! The lines were drwan along religious boundaries, not national ones. That is the difference between the holocaust and WW2. Can you really not see that?

And that quote is 100% right. There is nothing scarier than a human that doesn't have to answer to rational thought or conscience because they have "god on their side"

Oh FFS, they singled out members of a specific religion! The lines were drwan along religious boundaries, not national ones. That is the difference between the holocaust and WW2. Can you really not see that?

And that quote is 100% right. There is nothing scarier than a human that doesn't have to answer to rational thought or conscience because they have "god on their side"

The holocaust was directed against jews as a race not as a religious group.

A bunch of Christians (they had "Gott mit uns" on their uniforms) ...

Seriously?!? You think that makes them Christians?!? :\

Doing something "in the name of God" doesn't mean God told them to do it or approved of it. That just makes them misguided or deceived.

Doing something "in the name of God" doesn't mean God told them to do it or approved of it.

That doesn't matter. How can you tell the difference? How could they prove that he did? How would you prove that he didn't (hint: we have examples in the Bible of God commanding genocide, human sacrifice etc. so it's plausible for believers)?

That just makes them misguided or deceived.

I agree. Since there's no evidence for god, all believer are misguided or deceived.