If you assume that there must be a god for that reason (what else could do all those things?), then where does god come from?

Why does he need to come from somewhere?

[quote name='Prefect' timestamp='1302214824' post='4795703']
If you assume that there must be a god for that reason (what else could do all those things?), then where does god come from?

Why does he need to come from somewhere?
[/quote]

Why does the universe need to come from somewhere? Why does there have to be a cause for the big bang?

Why does he need to come from somewhere?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

If it's not a requirement for your god's to come from somewhere, why is that same requirement applied to everything else?
You could surely be equally happy with "things just are".

[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1302222230' post='4795758']
Why does he need to come from somewhere?

http://en.wikipedia....ll_the_way_down

If it's not a requirement for your god's to come from somewhere, why is that same requirement applied to everything else?
You could surely be equally happy with "things just are".
[/quote]

??

At least our minds are capable enough to observe that everything we can see right now, CAME from somewhere. I know where my body came from. I know where this computer came from. And given enough time I could probably find out where each component and material in this computer came from.

The problem is that our minds don't tend to be capable of going past that, so we get in this infinite loop of okay well C came from B, and B came from A, but where did A come from? Therefore one possible conclusion is that there is something outside of our understanding of things coming from other things, from cause and effect. Some thing that didn't "come from" anything else. Some thing that is beyond our ability to reason it out, besides that. I suppose another conclusion could some how be that nothing actually came from anything else... but that seems to be something we can at least notice around us. We see cause and effect all the time... so I'm having trouble with that... but it might just be me?

Also it's interesting that we (followers of Christ including myself, particularly) spend so much time trying to "prove" God's existence. The thing is if we believe all the stuff we say - then He's already proven it in literally countless ways. In fact, it's not even our responsibility... it's His.

It we don't believe in Him, it may possibly be much more important that one can prove with 100% certainty that He isn't real, rather than one who already believes to prove that He is, because even the mere possibility that God exists changes everything. As far as believers are concerned, we have mountains of proof. All that said, I'm really not trying to prove God's existence right now. But unbelievers, are you completely, 100% sure it isn't even possible? (Rhetorical). Because if not, there are some pretty heavy implications if the possibility exists ... ya know? That's all.

The problem is that our minds don't tend to be capable of going past that, so we get in this infinite loop of okay well C came from B, and B came from A, but where did A come from? Therefore one possible conclusion is that there is something outside of our understanding of things coming from other things, from cause and effect. Some thing that didn't "come from" anything else. Some thing that is beyond our ability to reason it out, besides that. I suppose another conclusion could some how be that nothing actually came from anything else... but that seems to be something we can at least notice around us. We see cause and effect all the time... so I'm having trouble with that... but it might just be me?

How about: "There exists something beyond our understanding which didn't "come from" anything else, it's called the universe"
If we accept that something can exist without a cause, the same argument can be applied to a whole range of things, but it doesn't make it any more enlightening.

It we don't believe in Him, it may possibly be much more important that one can prove with 100% certainty that He isn't real, rather than one who already believes to prove that He is, because even the mere possibility that God exists changes everything. As far as believers are concerned, we have mountains of proof. All that said, I'm really not trying to prove God's existence right now. But unbelievers, are you completely, 100% sure it isn't even possible? (Rhetorical). Because if not, there are some pretty heavy implications if the possibility exists ... ya know? That's all.
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I am not 100% certain of anything. But I am fairly confident in my mind that if god does exist, it is not the god worshiped by any of the religions here on earth. I see these religions as devices constructed by humans as a means of social control. Sometimes this can be beneficial, sometimes it can be very harmful. But if I am wrong and god does exist and wants to torture me for all eternity because I didn't believe in him during what could be, for all I know, my only chance to ever exist, then so be it. That kind of god I would never worship or revere, especially since he would have been the one to have created me the way I am in the first place. What if you are wrong? What if you got the wrong god? What if all the suicide bombers are wrong? What if all the people who have judged and manipulated and controlled in the name of god are wrong? What a shameful waste of life it would have turned out to be. But I feel that's the case whether god exists or not.

Don't get me wrong, I know that religion can do a lot of good, and I know that faith can be good for us. But religion can be very damaging also. It stands in our way on our quest to understand the universe with a simple and easy trump card, that doesn't actually explain a single thing.

http://en.wikipedia....ll_the_way_down

If it's not a requirement for your god's to come from somewhere, why is that same requirement applied to everything else?

This is a silly question. God being infinite is one of the cornerstones of the Abrahamaic religions. He always was and always will be. Before the universe was here, God was here; after it is gone, God will be there. A lot of the fallacies commonly associated with God are trying to rationalize a being far beyond human understanding into an enormously finite human understanding.

In similar fashion I cannot fit a circle into a square with equal area; therefore, circles do not exist.

First, decide what the word "God" means.

I honestly dunno, as I said, I assumed, I have a lot of doubt in my assumptions,

Without choosing sides [s]and igniting another rehash[/s], let me just use this post to refute a very common misconception about debates about religion on the internet (one that was repeated a few times in this thread):

They are not pointless.

Sure, you might not convince the person you're talking to, but somebody who isn't so sure is going to come along and read what you guys wrote and start thinking about it. Or at least, they should. That's never a bad thing.

A lot of the fallacies commonly associated with God are trying to rationalize a being far beyond human understanding into an enormously finite human understanding.

If god is beyond logic; stop trying to use it!

[color="#1C2837"]In similar fashion I cannot fit a circle into a square with equal area; therefore, circles do not exist
[color="#1C2837"][/quote]
[color="#1C2837"]
[color="#1C2837"]How does a circle fitting into a square of equal area infer anything about either the square's or the circle's existence?
[color="#1C2837"]It's not even remotely similar to:

[color="#1C2837"]A) For a thing to exist, there has to be some other thing to have caused it's existence
[color="#1C2837"]B) God is a thing that exists

[color="#1C2837"]If A) and B) are both true then some other thing must have caused god to exist.

[color="#1C2837"]Which leads to an infinite regression.

[color="#1C2837"]Look, I could never deny anyone their faith, it's a very personal thing. The problem comes when someone tries to externalise that belief, and present it as a universal truth. Or use it as a social framework in which we should fit our lives. I'm sorry but if you want to discuss the issue, then all we have got is our enormously finite human understanding and logic witth which to work, otherwise just go and meditate in a corner content in the knowledge that you've earned eternal bliss.

It's my opinion that there are thinkings and there are believers. The more you think, the less religion will make sense to you.

If you think turning athiest is scary (don't know why you would) then I suggest you spend more time believing and less time thinking

Well that is a nice way of summing it up: think less and believe more.