Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and have eaten of the treeabout which I commanded you,
“You shall not eat of it”,

Hence, punishment.

I think his point is that he believes it to be more that Man became aware of all these things that would pain him, where before he was blissfully ignorant. In that regard it wouldn't be a punishment.

Later, man was formed from dust, and yet later, woman was formed. And it took God three attempts to get woman right. Though "right" is debatable if you ask me, because the only thing "wrong" with the first one was that she didn't want to be totally submissive to Adam, which did not please the world's first macho.

It's also interesting that an omnipotent and omniscient god cannot get women right on the first time either.

'samoth' said:

Later, man was formed from dust, and yet later, woman was formed. And it took God three attempts to get woman right. Though "right" is debatable if you ask me, because the only thing "wrong" with the first one was that she didn't want to be totally submissive to Adam, which did not please the world's first macho.

It's also interesting that an omnipotent and omniscient god cannot get women right on the first time either.

I'm still confused about this three attempts thing. He only took one attempt at it (Genesis 2:15-25)

'tstrimple' said:

'samoth' said:

Later, man was formed from dust, and yet later, woman was formed. And it took God three attempts to get woman right. Though "right" is debatable if you ask me, because the only thing "wrong" with the first one was that she didn't want to be totally submissive to Adam, which did not please the world's first macho.

It's also interesting that an omnipotent and omniscient god cannot get women right on the first time either.

I'm still confused about this three attempts thing. He only took one attempt at it (Genesis 2:15-25)

It says pretty clearly that God attempted to create a suitable helper for Adam by creating the animals, and Adam said not good enough. Only after that was Eve created. So... trying to create a "suitable helper" didn't work on the first try and God had to give it another go. This also contradicts Genesis 1, where the animals were created first, and then men and women were created apparently at the same time.

'way2lazy2care' said:

'tstrimple' said:

'samoth' said:

Later, man was formed from dust, and yet later, woman was formed. And it took God three attempts to get woman right. Though "right" is debatable if you ask me, because the only thing "wrong" with the first one was that she didn't want to be totally submissive to Adam, which did not please the world's first macho.

It's also interesting that an omnipotent and omniscient god cannot get women right on the first time either.

I'm still confused about this three attempts thing. He only took one attempt at it (Genesis 2:15-25)

It says pretty clearly that God attempted to create a suitable helper for Adam by creating the animals, and Adam said not good enough. Only after that was Eve created. So… trying to create a "suitable helper" didn't work on the first try and God had to give it another go. This also contradicts Genesis 1, where the animals were created first, and then men and women were created apparently at the same time.

Where does it say that? In my King James Version, it didn't say anything about the animals being a helper for Adam. It specifically said that Eve will be his "helpmeet", so in that version, it was the first and only attempt.

Where does it say that? In my King James Version, it didn't say anything about the animals being a helper for Adam. It specifically said that Eve will be his "helpmeet", so in that version, it was the first and only attempt.

How can an infallible bible have versions?

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvGene.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=2&division=div1

18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19: And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20: And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.


God sets out to create a help meet, creates animals, Adam say not good enough. God creates woman.

Actually, it was three tries in some versions. Animals first, Lilith second, Eve third. Lilith was the first wife of Adam, who left him because she didn't wish to become subservient. Of course, this version is not told in the cleaned-up christian tradition - we cannot allow women to get ideas, after all.

I wonder if she received alimony after the fact.

'Zeraan' said:

Where does it say that? In my King James Version, it didn't say anything about the animals being a helper for Adam. It specifically said that Eve will be his "helpmeet", so in that version, it was the first and only attempt.

How can an infallible bible have versions?

http://etext.virgini…2&division=div1

I never said the bible was infallible. I said that we believed in it as far as it's translated correctly

18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19: And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20: And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

God sets out to create a help meet, creates animals, Adam say not good enough. God creates woman.


Hmm, that's a bit ambiguous. God says he will make a help meet for Adam, and it says he made animals, so it implies that the animals was supposed to be a helpmeet. But it says "an helpmeet" meaning one helpmeet, and animals are more than one, so this could be either to emphasis that animals can't be man's helpmeet, or the order of creation may be translated wrong. Also, it didn't say that Adam was the one who said "Not good enough". I'm sure that God knows that Adam can't procreate with any of the animals, since if he made Adam and the animals, he should know about genes and biology stuff.

In LDS church, we have other accounts of the Earth's creation, in books of Abraham and Moses. I just noticed that in book of Moses, it gave the same order as above, with animals created after Adam, but before Eve. In book of Abraham, it says Eve was created before animals, but after Adam. Maybe other versions of the bible have different orders as well?

I'm curious, if the animals were supposed to be an helpmeet, and thus the failed first attempt, and you said that Eve was the third attempt, what was the second attempt?

Edit: Wow, I've never heard about Lilith

'Zeraan' said:

Where does it say that? In my King James Version, it didn't say anything about the animals being a helper for Adam. It specifically said that Eve will be his "helpmeet", so in that version, it was the first and only attempt.

How can an infallible bible have versions?

http://etext.virgini…2&division=div1

18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19: And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20: And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21: And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22: And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

God sets out to create a help meet, creates animals, Adam say not good enough. God creates woman.

God created animals before he created Adam. Really it is God sets out to create an help meet (helper), God brings Adam pre-created animals to name, God creates Eve.

Lillith doesn't appear in the Jewish Bible in any significant fashion other than in texts and legend that came about around 1000-1500AD (almost 2500 years after Genesis was written), and she also appears in the christian Bible in Isaiah (literally translated to owl). Of course this is a christian plot to undermine her from the records so deep that it could change the core texts of two other religions that should contain her to not include her significantly either.

God created animals before he created Adam. Really it is God sets out to create an help meet (helper), God brings Adam pre-created animals to name, God creates Eve.

[size=2]<span style="font-weight:bold;">19:</span> And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air;<br /> [size=2]<br /> <br /> [size=2]You take that to mean that god brings the animals, not that god formed (created) the animals out of the ground?<br /> [size=2]<br />