I was not sure whether to post this in the Breaking into the Games Industry section, the Business and Law section or even, from the "already got virtual properties, now looking for traders and managers etc" side, in the Design section.

Because part of the design objective on the design and implementation side if I were to design and implement with this in mind would be to make it easier to attract participants and make it easier for participants and potential participants to get involved, I am posting this initially in the Breaking into the Industry section.

Rather than move this thread around from section to section as various aspects or angles of the concept bring up business, legal, or design considerations I would prefer to keep design detail problems or concerns in the design section, business and legal concerns in the business and legal section.

That hopefully will allow this thread to focus on the applicability of the concept to matters involving breaking into the industry here in the breaking into the industry section.

From a game developer standpoint, this concept came up as possibly having some potential application in startup situations, as part of a developer's attempt to move from working for others into launch of an in-house project. That seemed to me like an attempt on the part of someone in the developing for others industry to break into the running a possibly not yet fully developed product industry.

It also seemed to have some potential application in cases where a developer is looking to break into the running a possibly not yet completely developed product industry or the running a completely developed product that it would be nice to have someone else help us run industry. (For example a developer who has vast tracts or quantities of virtual real estate, commodities, trade goods or whatever already developed and now seeks inhabitants, exploiters, investors, or uses for such virtual property or properties.)

It does not take a whole lot of research into the marketing field to discover that merely because you build it does not necessarily mean "they" will come.

Various considerations that belong in the business and law section lead to design and implementation issues that probably belong in the design section and wherever implementation issues belong.

Therefore here I ignore at least temporarily concerns regarding the virtuality of any currency or currencies that may become involved in the concept.

That is to say, let us put aside in this thread questions of whether the trading and or the management is to involve any non-virtual currency or currencies. As an aid in doing that it is suggested that if enough participants were involved the mere involvement of so many participants would itself offer options not as readily available to activities that have no participants. (For example a lively and vibrant commercial zone of a thriving virtual city might face different currency-moving and currency-attracting potential with respect to various currencies virtual and otherwise were its inhabitants and denizens all machine-operated than it would were at least some of its inhabitants and denizens avatars of organic species such as human beings from the planet known by some as Earth. That is to say, beings purported to be and possibly even believed to be non-virtual in some "essence" or some "essential" manner or way.)

(It is partly such considerations that have led to the importance placed upon legends myths stories tales assertions and so on about "the planet known as Earth" in various virtual cultures and civilisations. Whether the devoutness of the local inhabitants' and denizens' belief or disbelief in the existence of the famous or infamous (or even possibly unheard of yet in that locality) "planet known as Earth" has effects upon real estate, commodity and trade goods' perceived and market values might be an interesting study for anthropologists. It also might be a lucrative study for traders of such things, inasmuch as if such belief or lack of belief does effect market values then knowing what effects such belief or lack of belief has upon market values of various things could be leveraged by means of stock exchanges futures markets and so on as well as activities such as stockpiling, manufacture and importing. (Especially if combined with activities such as proselytising?))

So much for preamble. Onward to applicability.

Would ownership of virtual property be useful in breaking into the industry?

Presumably if one were to buy a controlling amount of the common stock of a game development business, that would serve as a means of breaking into the business?

Now consider cases such as the purchase or lease of real estate located within the purview, territory or domain of "Second Life". Large purchases or leases of such real estate have historically occurred, some specifically for the purpose of developing games or entertainments utilising that real estate. Do such occurrences lend credence to the concept of using ownership of virtual property as a tool or aid in breaking into the industry?

Now, for a moment, back to the virtuality or nonvirtuality of currency.

If real estate were available using only virtual currency, would that real estate still be of use as such an aid, or would the fact that it is available to entities who might lack any currency other than virtual currency degrade its usefulness for such purposes?

Consider cases such as the purchase or lease of real estate located within the purview, territory or domain of some entity other than "Second Life" and available for purchase or lease using local (to that real estate) currency loaned by financiers who are local to that real estate. For example leasing a shop or place of entertainment in a mall on a planet far far away and or in a galaxy far far away using funds loaned by a bank located in that same mall. Might such a shop or place of entertainment be of some use in breaking into the industry?

If not, why not?

Quote: Original post by markm
0. I was not sure whether to post this in the Breaking into the Games Industry section, the Business and Law section or even, from the "already got virtual properties, now looking for traders and managers etc" side, in the Design section.

1. Would ownership of virtual property be useful in breaking into the industry?

2. Presumably if one were to buy a controlling amount of the common stock of a game development business, that would serve as a means of breaking into the business?

0. It would belong in Breaking In only if it was about how to get a job in the game industry or if it was about how to prepare for a job in the game industry.
1. I don't see how.
2. "Gee, he owns us. I guess we better give him a job." That's pretty weird -- no. "I own you. Give me a job or I'll have the board fire you." Yeah, that'd probably work.

Edit: Of course, if you own the controlling amount of stock of a game company, then you are already in (so you do not have to "break in").

[Edited by - Tom Sloper on December 17, 2010 10:31:24 AM]

Thank you.

It seems likely then that it would maybe actually come down to a Help Wanted situation:

"Wanted: people to populate my world. People looking to break into the game development industry preferred."

Or

"Wanted: people looking to break into the game industry. What I bring to the table: virtual property. What is in it for them: experience developing aspects of virtual worlds. Skills they need: ability to actually play inside such worlds. Development tasks need not be performed outside such worlds, they can do them inside the world(s)."

Of course the mandatory template would have to be used, too, in order to post in the help wanted section. ;) :)

I see though that we have now moved to the Business and Law section.

That brings up some design considerations relating to remaining legal whilst conducting business. It is imperative that the design is such as to be and remain legal.

With respect to being and remaining legal any point at which currencies which serve as legal currencies of nations located on "the planet known as Earth" enter or leave the system is likely to be a major "crux" - critical point - in the system.

It has it seems historically been the case on "the planet known as Earth" that unless one is in some kind of "barter business" the failure to input or output any legal currencies of any nations located on that planet has tended to be taken to mean that one is not actually in business or not actually doing business. (Call to mind such comments as "are you in business or merely engaging in a hobby?")

Thus for now let us put aside designs involving buying or selling virtual objects using Earth-legal currency, assuming at least temporarily that the "actual business" being engaged in is some other model such as for example paid subscriptions to games.

In order to be able to do that while still relating in-game activity to business goals, it has been suggested that the more players the game attracts the more money the business might be able to bring in and that activity within the game might well have an impact upon the process(es) of attracting players.

Thus there seems to be at least some potential for a kind of "snowballing" effect whereby the more players the game has attracted the more players it might well attract "going forward".

Such lines of thought can trigger ideas along the lines of "hey, what if the players had some incentive to try to attract more players themselves, thus participating actively in the recruitment process?"

At this point though, law relating to barter economies might rear it's head.

How much liability might one incur if players somehow find ways to benefit from increases in the population of players? For surely if there is any benefit whatsoever in there being more players at some future date than at the time some player wonders whether to attract another player, some player sometime is probably going to try in some way to attract another player.

Is there some kind of possibly very delicate "balancing act" one has to perform, or some kind of "covering your backside" position one was to take, with regard to either ensuring there is no possible way that it could be of any benefit to any player to have another player enter the game or ensuring that any attracting of new players is in no way the responsibility of the management / the business / the administration / the players?

Designing such entities as banks and stock exchanges into games might be more a matter for the design section than the business and law section but these preliminaries seemed important to try to cover before getting to that part...

[Edited by - markm on December 17, 2010 11:34:03 AM]

This thread is all over the place.
If you want to post Help Wanted, do it in the Help Wanted forum.
If you want to discuss design issues, do it in the Game Design forum.
Don't try to put everything on all topics into one post. Break it down.

Quote: Original post by markm
Would ownership of virtual property be useful in breaking into the industry?

No. (you really didn't need the 17 paragraph preamble. Just asking the question would have been fine).

Quote: Presumably if one were to buy a controlling amount of the common stock of a game development business, that would serve as a means of breaking into the business?

Yes but it would be an incredibly expensive and stupid way to get a job. Being rich enough to buy a company doesn't qualify you to work there; just as owning shares in HSBC, BP, Microsoft or any other company doesn't allow you to turn up there and start work. Share ownership has nothing to do with company management (or any other level of employment).

Quote: Now consider cases such as the purchase or lease of real estate located within the purview, territory or domain of "Second Life". Large purchases or leases of such real estate have historically occurred, some specifically for the purpose of developing games or entertainments utilising that real estate. Do such occurrences lend credence to the concept of using ownership of virtual property as a tool or aid in breaking into the industry?

Only in as far as you are talking about starting your own business. It won't get you a job at a game developer because that isn't how a game developer traditionally works.... but then the people in second life who sell virtual goods aren't looking to break in, they are creating a new industry.

Quote: If real estate were available using only virtual currency, would that real estate still be of use as such an aid, ......

It isn't an aid, so no.

Quote: For example leasing a shop or place of entertainment in a mall on a planet far far away and or in a galaxy far far away ..... Might such a shop or place of entertainment be of some use in breaking into the industry?

If not, why not?

Because Star Wars isn't real.