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Benedict said that for male prostitutes — for whom contraception isn't the central issue — condoms are not a moral solution. But he said they could be justified "in the intention of reducing the risk of infection." Journalist Peter Seewald, who interviewed Benedict over the course of six days this ummer, revisited those comments and asked Benedict if it wasn't "madness" for the Vatican to forbid a high risk population to use condoms. "There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility," Benedict said.

I just woke up, but I can't help it thinking that in a way the pope is saying that male prostitutes could use condoms and female prostitutes shouldn't. WTF?

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Original post by owl I just woke up, but I can't help it thinking that in a way the pope is saying that male prostitutes could use condoms and female prostitutes shouldn't. WTF?

Correct. The Pope gets to make all sorts of decrees within the ivory towers of Pope-land.

The reason Catholics can't use condoms is that any contraceptive is sinful, even indirectly. Since males are not using condoms as contraceptives with other males, then it's legal in pope-land.

When you read things like this, you also have to consider that change comes slowly, especially in the Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church as a whole isn't stuck in some magical fairy land dark age. Those in Rome actually know a lot about the world, but they can't rock the boat too hard, or too fast, because doing so stands a high risk of breaking it and seeing another Protestant Rebellion against the Catholic Church as large segments break off because they are stuck in the stone age.

When you start playing with a religion, you don't make changes overnight. You don't even make changes over the next 50 years. You start to make changes over centuries. You do things in small changes, as you have to raise people under the faith, and parents aren't going to accept that their kids are being taught a big change. So you teach a small change to their kids, then another small change to the grand kids, and so on.

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Original post by Binomine Quote: Original post by owl I just woke up, but I can't help it thinking that in a way the pope is saying that male prostitutes could use condoms and female prostitutes shouldn't. WTF? Correct. The Pope gets to make all sorts of decrees within the ivory towers of Pope-land. The reason Catholics can't use condoms is that any contraceptive is sinful, even indirectly. Since males are not using condoms as contraceptives with other males, then it's legal in pope-land.

So to summarize:

• Men using condom to perform sexual acts with other men = ok
  
• Men performing sexual acts with other men = not ok
  
• Prostitution = not ok
  
• Women using birth control = not ok
  
• Women using birth control (pill, injection, IUD), but using condom to prevent disease = maybe ok.....

I'm Catholic and even I think the rules are kinda dumb.

Don't fuck: no sin of no kind. Not a big deal, I can do that.

Maybe the pope is worried about some of his priests contracting aids...

By male prostitute do they mean gay or straight?

There's a sort of twisted logic about it for gay men: "you shouldn't be doing it but if you do, using a condom isn't going to make it any worse".

Otherwise, IF you buy that contraception is wrong then I guess condoms are bad. But I don't know where they get that from; if it's found somewhere in the bible or was laid down by an early pope as his own extra-biblical revelation; anything like that makes me nervous because we could go anywhere that route.

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Original post by LessBread Maybe the pope is worried about some of his priests contracting aids...

What, from young boys? Seems low-risk. [wink]

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Original post by d000hg Quote: Original post by LessBread Maybe the pope is worried about some of his priests contracting aids... What, from young boys? Seems low-risk. [wink]

I was going to say the same thing... Sick minds think alike. lol

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Original post by Alpha_ProgDes Quote: Original post by Binomine Quote: Original post by owl I just woke up, but I can't help it thinking that in a way the pope is saying that male prostitutes could use condoms and female prostitutes shouldn't. WTF? Correct. The Pope gets to make all sorts of decrees within the ivory towers of Pope-land. The reason Catholics can't use condoms is that any contraceptive is sinful, even indirectly. Since males are not using condoms as contraceptives with other males, then it's legal in pope-land. So to summarize: Men using condom to perform sexual acts with other men = ok Men performing sexual acts with other men = not ok Prostitution = not ok Women using birth control = not ok Women using birth control (pill, injection, IUD), but using condom to prevent disease = maybe ok..... I'm Catholic and even I think the rules are kinda dumb.

Those rules come directly from the following ruleset, which DOES make sense within their framework of biblical belief:

A) No performing sex acts outside of marriage.
B) Marriage is between a man and a woman.
C) No intentional prevention of pregnancy.
D) No termination of pregnancy.


Those three rules allow you to derive all the "Weird" rules above, exactly as formulated (plus a lot of other "Weird" rules above). For example:


-No marriage between man + man & no sex outside of marriage -> No male male sex.
-Male Male sex cannot involve pregnency-> male-male condoms ok. (but male male sex still not ok)
-No sex outside of marriage->so no prostitution unless you are married to her
-No intentional prevention of pregnancy->no birth control UNLESS you are already sterile, then its ok.

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Otherwise, IF you buy that contraception is wrong then I guess condoms are bad. But I don't know where they get that from; if it's found somewhere in the bible or was laid down by an early pope as his own extra-biblical revelation; anything like that makes me nervous because we could go anywhere that route.

The catholic church holds the belief that although it does not directly know the mind of god as to what is sinful and what is not, several sources offer inspiration to man as to what god wants/desires for his people. The bible is the primary one, but the traditions and history of the church as guided by the holy spirit are another. Lastly, the use of reason as applied to the bible is encouraged as a means of deriving meaning and teaching to the people of the modern era, and this is the primary responsibility of the church (in their opinion).

The way I understand it, in the 1950s or so, basically when the pill really became often used, the "theological think tank" part of the church sat down and discussed whether or not birth control was sinful. The primary issue was whether or not they were sinful in a vaccuum...that is, assuming that the couple using them was married, straight, catholic, up-to date on their tithes, whatever, in every OTHER way was spiritually healthy, is birth control use sinful in and of itself?

After consulting the scripture and doing all the stuff that nerdy priests do, they concluded that birth control WAS sinful, because of the fact that the use of birth control implies two people who love each-other, but reject god's desire to create new life as an expression of that love (or...something....). You can read the relevant summary details
here, although reading a translation of the document itself would give more insight, I'm sure.