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Original post by makeshiftwings
The romances in the Black Isle games (Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape...) seemed much more mature to me, and were actually enjoyable, as opposed to the random scantily clad girls in most games, which mostly make me feel like everyone was right when they said video games are for kids.

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Of course, the humorous sexual situations in Fallout 2 kind of reversed any notion of "more mature." (your character could help make a porn movie for 5 bottlecaps, among other things)

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Also, in my life, I generally try to uphold such Chaotic Good beliefs as feminism and gay rights; but games sometimes seem to be developed by a horde of homophobic chauvinists. Then again, I suppose most of the suburban teenage male population is a horde of homophobic chauvinists, and developers are just catering to their audience.

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Indeed, this is probably very close to the mark.

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I for one, know a lot of gamers that would have a fatal heart attack if they found out their battle-hardened space marine was going around kissing boys, though I myself would be thrilled to see something like that in a game.

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Yeah, as you point out the traditional bias is tolerance toward lesbian relationships, if anything (which seems to be a common adolescent male fantasy-- heh, nevermind that in reality it would have nothing to do with the fantasizer, anyway).

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Now, I'm not saying we should all release games with lots of naked guys running around, I'm just trying to make a point that nudity in games isn't actually there for "realism" or "artistic reasons" as some people want to believe, it's really just some naked chicks to keep the teenage boys interested.

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LOL!!!!! Dead on bullseye! Dead on!

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So, ideas? Can nudity and sex be included tastefully, perhaps even artistically, into a game?

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Probably not for awhile. Games have a lot of growing up to do, if at all. As Europeans are keen on observing of American media, we're more comfortable watching a bullet shatter a human eye socket in high textured detail than we are in seeing a naked body.

Most games are not about people. They're typically about things (like new plate mail armor; another tank; the red keycard, etc.) Contrasted to stories or movies, this is probably another reason why sex is so objectified. Even though there are tons of games with characters, it's very difficult to fit human nuance into them. And sexuality is all about nuance.

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Or maybe just put some porn in to help the game sell (not an option for me persnoally) ?

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Heh, "the only business the internet making money..." Poly porn is probably the wave of the future...

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Would gamers in general even play Killfest 6000 if the main character was acting suspiciously gay during the opening sequence?

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Probably not, especially now that a new generation has popularized the use of the word 'gay' as an epithet to disparage all manner of things. For more diversity, you need to go higher on the "cultural IQ" scale. So that's neither WWF or Quake XLIV. Adventure games might be your best shot here, out of all the genres.



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Just waiting for the mothership...

Edited by - Wavinator on September 2, 2001 10:25:57 PM

It''s interesting that someone mentioned Dreamweb. I vaguely remember it from my Amiga days. It was certainly quite graphic but the graphicness made sense given the story.

Anyway, I agree that sex/nudity shouldn''t be included/excluded in a game just for the sake of pleasing a target audience. But I also don''t think that such things should be used in a game only if it serves a purpose. Because then, the entire situation seems contrived. This raises the question of where to draw the line. Making every single character in a game entirely abstinent for no reason is obviously just as unrealistic as having the game give the entire story of why any given character who is having sex in the game.

However, in the case of homosexuality, race and gender: it should serve a purpose (even if it is minor) or at least somewhat impact their dialogue. Why? Because if a character being gay served no purpose, then what''s the point of telling us? But that goes for almost any classification. What difference does it make if a character''s male, female, elf or dwarf if their personalities don''t at least somewhat reflect this. But again, there must be a line. The last thing we need is a gay Duke Nukem whose vocal tracks in the game all feature the stereotypically pseudo-feminine voice and heavy lisp.

But despite any of that, it''s entirely impossible to appease everyone. Sure, by using gratuitous female nudity, you''ll get more teenage males playing but you might lose some female players. Giving game characters cultural/gender diversity will attract those who are annoyed with primarily white male characters but may detract those possessing corresponding prejudices. This has the same as above with concern to prejudices.

But alas, it''s true that teenage males are the primary market for video games so if you want to sell, T&A, gruff heroes and lots of blood are the way to go.

In response to that, all I can say is "Thank God my games are free and will never need to be marketed."


-Goku
SANE Productions Homepage

Strain is my coup de grâce of conventional RPG''s, merging both RPG and adventure elements to create a game worthy of explorers like myself. (Kylotan and Silvermyst might recall my little spiel on this topic.) I''d never even considered nudity as a selling point in this game because, frankly, it has no place. The story is about a decimated world and an alien disease that kills its host.

A lot of you people seem to have some real problems with stereotyping the gaming community. You should probably put the phrase "most gamers" in all your sentences, because it seems to me that 90 percent of the people who visit these forums do not qualify as your so-called "typical" gamers. This is a point that has bothered me for years.

I played all the way through Tomb Raider II because I wanted to score a perfect game. Certainly, the female star was attractive (for a mesh) and drew me into the game, but so would a bad-ass male star with a trenchcoat. Players are attracted to whatever they think is appealing. Guns are appealing. Naked women are appealing. To me, alien worlds are appealing.

You''re also forgetting something very very very important: professional developers are trying to make money. If nudity sells, you use it. If gratuitous violence sells, you use it. Everyone here is looking for something beyond what we''re used to seeing on the shelves at Babbages. You will not find it there. Make it your damn self, for God''s sake.

If you want to know the real answer, you have to decide if you''re making games for money, or because you want to innovate. Figure it out, and then make a game that beats everything else in shear playability. Just let the arguments rest.

Anyone played Xentar knights (Dragon Knight in japan)? That was an RPG where you run around gathering items, fighting monsters and saving anime chicks from danger. It was kind of funny that when you managed to rescue a damsel in distress, she would strip and you would see a corny anime sex sequence. I suppose they wanted to cater to oversexed men who liked to play RPG's, and spank their willies every time they finished a quest. I guess it would beat the unfulfilled "I saved the kingdom" fare in standard RPG's... But who's to say? Personally I thought it was kind of stupid, but I'm sure there are worse things than nudity in video games and life these days.... Of course being the straight man that I am, I wouldn't want to buy a game that had John Rambone doing the vertical rumba while I kill evil space men either. Which is why game companies use good common sense in that respect anyway






Edited by - Cranium-Ticker on September 4, 2001 3:16:23 AM

On including nudity:
Nudity is simply giving the player the capability to remove all their clothes. Most likely it would not be vital to a game. Do you want to give your players the option of removing all of their clothes? Seems like a pretty mild topic really. If you want to make it more controversial, include a random seed in your game that generates a small percentage of character portraits whose men have penises the size of a loaf of French bread. These characters should have larger, funny-shaped pants, and could never run as fast as the other players. If you did this, then there would be a need to see yourself nude to explain your characters unusual pants and movement speed. As well as the unusual charisma the character has around the NPC ladies.

On including Sexual acts:
I think it depends on how it looks on the screen. Too much realism would invite a lot of objections... enough objections that lack of sales from the objectors would probably far outweigh the added sales from the deprived. I bet that if you plotted a graph of sexual realism vs. public objections it would be a 45 degree line from the origin.

On the other hand, if it looks un-realistic, it stops being sexual eye candy and just becomes humor. I read a line in a recent magazine article about games of the horror genre. The author mentioned something to the effect that you should not use blood to try to make your game scarry because blood isn''t scarry. The bloodier and gorier a scene is, the more likely it is to become funny to the player. In this same regards, I think un-realistic sex added to a game should only be considered for its humor value. The problem is trying to convince the "stick-up-butt" members of society to see it that way. (maybe these groups only protest this type of thing because they are afraid to face the music and explain sex to their kids. [ouch...ok that was too far]) =P

I agree that nuditiy showed only be used in an artistic way. This should be applied when the character engages in a serious relationship like emma''s laura craft companion mod. This adds a more realism sense to the game rather than having characters running around naked seems pretty pointless to me. A strip club makes more sense but i rather have nudity exposed when the main character in the game engages in romance with a npc and only when the characters develop deeper connections to each other and begin to trust each other more, ie u can trust ur partner with 3000 gold in buying an item u need. nudity should only be exposed in the game in a serious boyfriend/girlfriend relationship since it adds a greater sense of realism to the game.

I agree that nuditiy showed only be used in an artistic way. This should be applied when the character engages in a serious relationship like emma''s laura craft companion mod. This adds a more realism sense to the game rather than having characters running around naked seems pretty pointless to me. A strip club makes more sense but i rather have nudity exposed when the main character in the game engages in romance with a npc and only when the characters develop deeper connections to each other and begin to trust each other more, ie u can trust ur partner with 3000 gold in buying an item u need. nudity should only be exposed in the game in a serious boyfriend/girlfriend relationship since it adds a greater sense of realism to the game. But nudity showed also be used in that ur character has cloths to move but there showed be laws added ie if a guard sees u nude then u get arrested, also appearing nude in front of npc lowers ur dispostion or raises it, also allowing nudity allows ur character to wear different underwear bringing a greater sense of realism to the game. come on how could they keep on wearing the same underwear.

I reckon sex showed be only been done in the game once ur married. This will show people that it is better to have morals. Also if u ask someone to sleep with u then ur character showed b knocked out if u have a wife, girlfriend, and arnt married. Sex showed be used in the game to teach people morals. Ive played games were there was sex and nudity involved but it only happened when ur married and it shows a more moralistic approach. People who can play a game which contains nudity and it dosnt bother them shows true maturity since they can deal with it. Nudity and sex showed be put into the game but showed in morals in how to approach it ie get married and sex after marriage.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster
I reckon sex showed be only been done in the game once ur married. This will show people that it is better to have morals. Also if u ask someone to sleep with u then ur character showed b knocked out if u have a wife, girlfriend, and arnt married. Sex showed be used in the game to teach people morals. Ive played games were there was sex and nudity involved but it only happened when ur married and it shows a more moralistic approach. People who can play a game which contains nudity and it dosnt bother them shows true maturity since they can deal with it. Nudity and sex showed be put into the game but showed in morals in how to approach it ie get married and sex after marriage.

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Whose morals?? Yours?


[edited by - atcdevil on May 5, 2004 10:44:56 AM]

Am i the only person amused that it seems that the more open minded the position espoused in the post, the better written it seems to be?

::cough cough::