Hrm, and here I am only thinking about making a 4 dimensional Descent type game...

Now _how_ disorienting would that be?

Yeah, and how many controls would you need to get around?
The player would need half of the keyboard just to move and look!

TheThief

I didn''t get to read all the posts on alternatives in space travel but I wanted to mention Foldspace technology in case it hadn''t been. Foldspace is where to the universe is sorta flat and space is fold like paper bringing 2 points on opposite sides of the galaxy next to each other.

I think you have some good ideas TheThief. Although in a potentially massive space sim like this I find MMORPGs a little more interesting. Just my personal taste. The problem with MMORPGs on this scale is that its hard to give a good story to people all across the galaxy. I''d also like to point out the potential with relay ships. You could have ships reach their destination mid game adding new exploration and races.

Just curious...

Which do you guys think is better when coming up with how FTL works? Something plausible, or something wildly fantastical but consistent?

I guess this is maybe the difference between science fiction and science fantasy, but since it was being discussed here I thought I''d ask...

--------------------
Just waiting for the mothership...

I guess to sound good, you have to find a middle ground. If you have something VERY plausible, but really boring/inconsistent(like the technology in Star Trek ), it doesn''t really add to the game''s atmosphere. On the other hand, if you invent a new element/substance and base your whole game on it, you might get the player confused. I''m trying to avoid going to those extremes and staying plausible and consistent .

Of course, you could solve a whole lot of gameplay-related/technical problems if you just start making stuff up. As long as you don''t use an element in your world JUST to cover up a technological flaw, it will work fine.

TheThief

I''m actually just a layman in theoretical physics TheThief, so you''re guestimations would be as accurate as mine

However, I have heard of the multi-dimensional theories before. One theorist came up with a REALLY wacky hypothesis on how to make all the dimensional and space-time continuum theories work. In essence, every possibility has already taken place/is taking place/will take place. Yeah, it''s wacky, but from what he seemed to be talking about, the concept of time is simply a human limitation. So is the concept of space really.

Then you could always go to Einstein''s theory that space is not necessarily planar. I remember shadowing a theoretical physicist back in high school, and he asked me the question, "how can a triangle have three right angles?". I knew it had to be a trick question, but I couldn''t think of an answer. He drew three lines on a ball, connecting quarter points on the equator of the ball to it''s axel pole. There were three lines (albeit not straight) that had right angles to each other. IF space is non-cartesian, then the possibilty definitely exists to "fold" space.

As for Wavinator''s question, I tend to prefer the plausible to the far out, but it still has to be consistent, but if it''s going to be far fetched it MUST be consistent. I couldn''t believe the part in the Phantom Menace where Gui-Gon measures the "midichloreans" in Anakin''s body....ohhh boy. What on Earth possessed Lucas to want to make a rational explanation that was at it''s very heart a mystical essence. He would have been far better off making it a mystery, an esoteric field of study much akin to the martial chi kung practices that Im sure he borrowed the idea from (I think Lucas stole the idea of Jedi Knights on the Bushido code blended with Taoist mysticism). So I think space fantasy has it''s place, but it should never be a mixture of science fiction and space fantasy, because the mixture is just ugly.

Hey, I haven''t been here for two days and nobody''s even posted anything! Anyway, the more I thought about my original realy-travel idea, the more I tried to simplify it so there would be no need for FTL communication. So I thought, why not just shove both of the worm-hole generators on the ship(instead of having one be at the destination) and just generate them in varying distances in front of the ship, say the first one 2 kilometers away, and the second one half a light-year away, and for traveling long distance, just kind of...hop between them. The other point I''m beginning to consider is power. If it takes 20 "hops" to travel 40 light years, how much power will these things eat up? What is the actual power source on the ships. The fuel needs to be a very common elemt in the galaxy so the ships don''t just "run out of gas". The fuel should be either radiation, heat, or light, or a combination of the three. That way, ships can "re-fuel" just by gettig close to reasonably hot star. This would also make for interesting battle-grounds because if the star is a popular place to refuel, there will be many ships hanging around it....

Anyway, just food for thought

TheThief

If it is anything like Solar Winds then it will be great, that was a brilliant game
When you are finished, email me at andrew@downloadnet.co.uk and I will add it to my page at www.downloadnet.co.uk

Whoo, this thread has aged...

I was just going over my bookmarks and found it. I remembered all my ideas and this sparked a flurry of brain activity Anyway, to continue my last post:

Let''s say the fuel for FTL travel is now energy in the form of heat and gamma radiation(for example). The sun in our solar system isn''t powerful enough to fuel big ships, so Earth sets up a colony at a relatively nearby star which is a million times bigger than our sun. We base all of our space operations from there. Fast forward 200 years after the colony is established, and 2/3 of human-kind is now living on giant stations around this star(Sol-Beta). The colonies are completely self-sufficient because they gather raw materials from nearby planets. First contact occurs and...

We''re at war with the Apsaa. They are technologically more advanced, and they have control of five massive stars near Sol-Beta. How''s that for a kick-ass battlefield? Not only do we solve the problem of energy, but we don''t have to model an entire galaxy, just a dozen stars or so. We can''t travel outside this area or we can''t refuel, so we get a logical scale constraint!

More food for thought....
TheThief

I just scanned this thread, and I hardly know what's going on here, but you should really look at the NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program. In addition to quantum entanglement (which is what Dauntless is talking about) they are actively researching such things as vacuum fluctuations to determine if an unlimited amount of energy can be extracted from the vacuum of space, among other things.

There are many sites available via search. Here's one.

Edited by - bishop_pass on October 26, 2001 2:28:57 AM