Hi people, To compose for a visual subject, I choosed a one minute footage from the game tutorial of Medieval II: Total War. After putting an end to the video by editing and erasing all audio, I took related sound effects, same or similar to the ones in the footage, from its original game by monitoring. By examining the exact positions in the timeline, I edited, manipulated, and mixed SFX by using some effects such as EQ, reverb, compression, expander. Without sound effects, pure music would be dull. While sorting SFX out, I recomposed its music. After polishing the overall final mix, I rendered the video by resizing because of uploading limits for big size files. I enjoyed working on this non-profit personal project. It is on the section "Demo Reel and Videos" of my website. It is easy to watch. I cant give a particular link because of my website's technical structure. Here we go; http://www.hakanyurdakul.com/ Best wishes, Hakan

Hakan- Hey, I watched the video. Some good stuff here! Is your post looking for feedback on this or are you just wanting to share it with the forum?

Thanks!

Nate

Thanks for watching, Nate
Of course, it is open for feedback. Receiving feedback is one of the best things to improve myself...
Best wishes,
Hakan

Okay, just wanted to check first. I have a few thoughts about the video:

1) String ostinato: My ears got pretty tired of this musical element since it's there basically the entire time. I think either having the ostinato figure move to another section and leave the strings or have it leave the piece entirely for a while would help. Then you can bring it back.

2) Stronger ending needed: I love that you synced the ending with the music, good job on that! However, the ending itself feels rather weak. Since this is a trailer, you want to really leave the viewer with the impression of "OMG! I HAVE to get this game!" I don't feel that your music's ending is doing that yet. Consider having some sections to a long crescendo moving and building tension to that final chord. It also sounds like a muffled cymbal crash there as well. If you have a different sample, try and use a cymbal crash that is much more aggressive then let it ring out throughout the end tag. Your last note plays with 5 seconds to go. That's a long time for just silence.

3) Musical dynamics: The music all feels like it's sitting at one level basically. Yes there are some dynamics but I feel that you could use much more. I also feel that your music production really lacks the low end, which can also diminish the amount of impact felt from the music.

4) More sound design: Some of the sound design is spot on. Awesome! There are, however, several gaps. I'll try and point them out.

* 0:26 Why not support the flying catapult "missiles" more? They could use a shrieking flying sound and then some huge explosions.

* 0:31 You have a great swipe SFX for the sword but the stabbing motion is very weak. Make this bigger. This is killing the other guy and deserve a better, louder SFX especially since the swipe was so good. Use something for the pulling out motion as well.

* 0:44 Why no swipe SFX here? Especially since you had one before, it's going to really stick out to other audio pros (and perhaps just the casual viewer) that this element is missing.

* 0:51 Same thing here. Several large motions with little to no sound attached to them. Fill in the gaps.

* 1:03 The logo needs some kind of SFX while it flies up to the camera. This is because it's the last thing the viewer sees and because it's the name of the product you want them to remember. You want this to create a large impression on them so they'll go out to the stores and buy it.

Overall SFX feedback: You have some nice stuff in here but you're falling into a similar trap that I did when I first started sound design. There's too many gaps. For me, I didn't think about sound design having progression and development just like a musical piece would, but it does! Try approaching sound design like you do musical composition. Consider the "balance" of your sounds and the "flavors" that you're putting in there. Is it all the same thing? If so, change it! Are there gaps? Fill them in! Does the sound design do a good job of drawing anti caption of an upcoming event? If not, make it do so! I didn't even touch on some of the swooping, long camera movement, but you could really use another pass to fill in some of your gaps. Imagine it this way: I should be able to listen to only our sound design by itself and have a pretty good idea of what's going on. You want to create a full world with the sound design. When I'm watching your trailer, I don't get this sensation. Some of this might also be due to how the music and sound design are mixed together. This is always tricky. Whenever you add music to a trailer, you're always going to lose some SFX nuance. It's just how it goes. But what you want to try and do is limit the amount of loss and make the key points in both the music and the sound design stand out.

Thanks for sharing this. I enjoyed watching it. I hope that helps!

Nate

Thanks so much Nate,
Basically, I choosed this footage for only recomposing. I edited SFX because pure music would be dull. Well, I located SFX according to its original position. In original version, there are gaps as you mentioned since it is a videogame tutorial instead of its trailer. I think dealing with SFX is harder than composing, if I decided to create its SFX again, I would try to fill these gaps and experiment different options.

When it comes to the music, I feel that it is lack of the low end, or middle range is high little bit, too. I dont have proper studio equipment and acoustically treated room. At mastering session, I think, somehow I didnt give attention. It reveals ostinato feeling, and becomes weaker at the end as you mention. My aim on music was to create a blind tension overall by opening C major chromatic, and modulating from Eminor-Fminor to C major chromatic again. Ending part is Eminor (keys)

I think I will leave this work like that, and start for a new one. Next time, I will take more care for mastering and SFX. Finally i enjoyed working on such a thing. It made me aware of how painful SFX is.

Thanks again.
Best Wishes,
Hakan

Yeah, I think it would be best to leave your sound design out if you're more focused on music. I have several trailers on my website that only feature music since I didn't do the sound design and they come off pretty well. Sure, sound design adds a layer but what you don't want is to have sound design that draws criticism if you're only focused on the musical aspect.

Please share the next one too! I'd love to check it out.

Nate

Most importantly, you mention that "without sound effects, pure music would be dull" on your description.

Your goal should be to make certain that "without sound effects," your music is not dull!

Thanks for your comment Dannthr,
It might be good point. I think my goal shouldnt be as you said. Video, music, and SFX are altogether in the name of totalartwork. Of course, just writing music to video could be another option. I just wanted to edit SFX as well, and I enjoyed it, totally different and hard task in my opionion. Thats why I show respect to sound designers. If i thought that my music was dull, i wouldnt compose it for the video. It is not related to the song. When eyes watch the video and ears listen to the audio, brain stimulates the ears to catch the action's sound (SFX) for video. Therefore i mentioned "pure music would be dull". It is only for this work at the first place. Maybe I wouldnt mention like that for a different video

Best Wishes,
Hakan
www.hakanyurdakul.com

Hakan, allow me to be blunt.

The music is weak and let me explain why:

During your track you aim to create tension through a series of rising harmonic progressions.

Unfortunately, you put TOO MUCH strain on the harmonic progressions ability to carry the tension completely by itself.

So your tension--your build--becomes a hollow one.


You see, Hakan, strength and power is about contrast not about volume or density. Your track lacks strength because it lacks contrast. Most significantly point numbers 1 and 3 of Nathan's critique address this lack of contrast.

Your rhythm lacks contrast and dynamics lack contrast.

So yes, your original assessment was accurate: "The music is dull."

Instead, spread the workload between a broader variety of musical concepts. Let rhythm do some of the work, let harmonic progressions do some of the work, and let dynamic contrast do some of the work. Each of these three elements multiply the power of your composition--but in order for them to be effective, you must learn to harness them.

Because of your defense of your own work, I don't believe you'd take well to a listening assignment--so instead, I will simply leave you with what I found to be the simplest example to grasp.

That is to say, an example of dynamic contrast and rhythmic contrast.

Please listen to 0:30 to 2:00 of

">Hans Zimmer's "A Family Affair" from the OST to Dead Man's Chest.

Generally, I don't give Zimmer as listening material, but I feel this example is basic enough for you to metabolize even in a state of defense--that is to say, it's obvious.

As far as your defense that the sound effects and music would not be one without the other--unfortunately, the music should stand on its own just as the sound effects should stand on its own, and together they will be all the more powerful for it.

Finally, I would like to conclude by reminding you (or possibly informing you for the first time) that no criticism is without some measure of merit. Even simple or uninformed criticism comes from a legitimate listening experience. Experienced criticism, on the other hand, like Nathan's or mine, expounded or not, is not based on whimsical impressions but rather a grounded perspective of music and sound as a craft.

I highly suggest you use the tools we provide you to improve your craft.

Thanks so much for your criticism Dannthr,
Well, this way to explain is more clear. You explained why it was like that. I am very well open to criticism, otherwise I wouldnt post and share this video to this forum. I listen to people's feedback so that I can see the points I am lack of and strong. It is a good way to learn.

However, while doing criticism or leaving feedback, there should be some respects. For example, it should be noticed that the person who posts his work might be inexperienced, and this work might be his first work. Yes, it is my first work to compose, edit SFX, and deal with video things for a footage. Thats why criticism or feedback should be clear and direct to the points. Your first comment :

" Most importantly, you mention that "without sound effects, pure music would be dull" on your description.

Your goal should be to make certain that "without sound effects," your music is not dull! "

I wouldnt approach like that for a person whom I dont know if I were experienced to leave feedback. I would directly tell him about the points, and advise "keep working hard". If I didnt know his goal or were confused to understand, i would ask him for explaining it more clearly. Thats why I explained why I tried to edit SFX on my answer to your first comment. You described that a state of defense. I am really suprised. For example, as an experienced person, Nathe firstly asked me if it was open for feedback before he left a feedback because I didnt mention about that on my post. It was nice of him, otherwise, he could leave an unhelpful feedback without explaining the points. I believe in that you didnt mean like. I think this forum is to share and improve ourselves

Well, as Nathe points, you point the same things: Lack of dynamic and rhythm contrast. I will try to sort it out these problems on next work. I listened to the example you choosed for me. I can tell you about my simple opinions. Firstly, it is mono and hard to hear orchestration and its inside dynamic contrast because of the fact that stereo field was killed by converting into mono. Secondly, Hans Zimmer is an advanced example for a beginner. If i choosed an example, it would be a stereo recording, and suitable for beginners in the name of film and videogame music. They are my simple opinions for a beginner.

Thanks so much again. I will try to be brave and experiment for these points.
Best Wishes,
Hakan