Quote: Original post by megamoscha
Well, now im calmed down. ;-)

[...]
And to clarify: I don't hate this country but I dislike this government very much, and I go to the elections this year to try to change something.

That's what I wanted to hear and that's what is ok to voice [smile]

@von der Leyen
Who can take a women seriously who is working 60+ hours a weeks as minister of family but who has 7 children that are taken care of by someone else?

@Schäuble
Who can take someone seriously who acts as if he is scared to death by the potential thread of terrorism to a degree that he would like to lock all citizens away at their home with one big brother for each one of us to keep an eye on things?

Quote: Original post by megamoscha
I go to the elections this year to try to change something

And that's how democracy works. All citizens should be required to go and make their vote. Over-exegerating again I would suggest that we introduce a penalty tax for those who do not go voting. Unfortunately lots of people do not realize that this behavior only helps those smaller parties we all would like to avoid.

Quote: Original post by Waterwalker
@von der Leyen
Who can take a women seriously who is working 60+ hours a weeks as minister of family but who has 7 children that are taken care of by someone else?

@Schäuble
Who can take someone seriously who acts as if he is scared to death by the potential thread of terrorism to a degree that he would like to lock all citizens away at their home with one big brother for each one of us to keep an eye on things?

Hehe, yeah you're right. ^^

Quote: Original post by Waterwalker
And that's how democracy works. All citizens should be required to go and make their vote. Over-exegerating again I would suggest that we introduce a penalty tax for those who do not go voting. Unfortunately lots of people do not realize that this behavior only helps those smaller parties we all would like to avoid.

QFE

I actually love Germany. But yeah, they seem to have some rules that make perfect sense, and in many ways are more evolved than here in America, but then they have other rules that warrant a WTF sort of response. This just sounds like a bad idea to me. Once they lock down these sites, what's next? I have a feeling something like this could get out of control.

Quote: Original post by Black Knight
Lol welcome to Turkey,oh wait you are in Germany but looks like you are going in the same direction as we are [lol]

They would be steering in our direction if the the ban was actually in place and Angela Merkel said that she found her way around the ban and can access the blocked sites. (Remember our Prime Minister actually said that he could access youtube by other means so te public should not complain, or something like that)

Quote: Original post by glassflakes

Quote: Original post by Black Knight
Lol welcome to Turkey,oh wait you are in Germany but looks like you are going in the same direction as we are [lol]

They would be steering in our direction if the the ban was actually in place and Angela Merkel said that she found her way around the ban and can access the blocked sites. (Remember our Prime Minister actually said that he could access youtube by other means so te public should not complain, or something like that)

Yea I remember its funny how he suggests people to dodge the bans.

Quote: Original post by Waterwalker
Over-exegerating again I would suggest that we introduce a penalty tax for those who do not go voting.

oh god NO!

Lets get this stright; it's a RIGHT to vote, not a REQUIREMENT.

In the run up to my 18th birthday I was looking forward to being able to vote, the right which many people died to secure for me, however as that date got closer I had a think about things and decided that, in my area, I didn't agree with any of the people standing for various reasons. At which point I decided that giving my support to any of them would not be the right thing to do.

Since then I've not voted (over 10 years now) and I've managed to convince my parents to consider the reasons why they vote more (I had a rather intresting arguement/discussion with my mum over this who was annoyed that I wasn't going to vote because of all the forementioned people who died for me to be able to do so).

The point of this; if you introduce penalties for not voting you are forcing people to lend support to those who they don't agree with.
This might work if you introduced a 'none of the above' option and gave that option a chance to win (which would lead to all manner of intresting problems) as I suspect you'd see a higher turn out from that.
Of course, the other option is go and vote to avoid the tax and just spoil the ballot paper so it doesn't count; you still get your 100% turn out, just no more 'real' votes.

If such a 'tax' or 'fine' was introduced in the UK then I'd very carefully weight up the cost of paying said tax against just going to spoil a paper.. chances are I'd take the latter just so it cost the goverment more money to deal with my protest [smile]

Quote: Original post by phantom

Quote: Original post by Waterwalker
Over-exegerating again I would suggest that we introduce a penalty tax for those who do not go voting.

oh god NO!

Lets get this stright; it's a RIGHT to vote, not a REQUIREMENT.

In the run up to my 18th birthday I was looking forward to being able to vote, the right which many people died to secure for me, however as that date got closer I had a think about things and decided that, in my area, I didn't agree with any of the people standing for various reasons. At which point I decided that giving my support to any of them would not be the right thing to do.

[...]

The point of this; if you introduce penalties for not voting you are forcing people to lend support to those who they don't agree with.
This might work if you introduced a 'none of the above' option and gave that option a chance to win (which would lead to all manner of intresting problems) as I suspect you'd see a higher turn out from that.
Of course, the other option is go and vote to avoid the tax and just spoil the ballot paper so it doesn't count; you still get your 100% turn out, just no more 'real' votes.

[...]

[smile]

I agree. I actually went voting the last times, but because I didn't agree or didn't trust in any of the parties and their promises, I made a big cross over my paper, driving it an abstention. This didn't change anything, ofc, but this is what I could do to contribute to the democracy I live in, and I am not complaining, because as I have decided to not leave my country, I also accept what others vote.

The alternative of course would be to launch my own party or initiate some revolution, but that's a burden I can not or don't want to carry (at the moment, probably ever). Actually, I am currently not really unhappy about our laws, except for some warts here and there; the only thing I really fear is how there's a slow (and for most people unnoticeable (*)) transformation towards a surveillance society.

(*): Anyone remember how there were large protests about our last census in 1987 (sorry, no english link -> google translation)? Nowadays, many people are happily exposing theirselves in the internets, and I don't expect relevant protest for the census 2011.

Quote: Original post by phantom

Quote: Original post by Waterwalker
Over-exegerating again I would suggest that we introduce a penalty tax for those who do not go voting.

oh god NO!

Ah, it's one of the standard topics for a formal debate in every Australian high school English class. [grin]

Australia has compulsory voter attendance on penalty of a small fine, and I don't think it's that bad. I think it helps reinforce the notion that every citizen is a voter (well, every adult citizen), and more importantly helps stop shenanigans where a group can help make it difficult for a particular group to vote.

Of course, they can't force you to actually vote, just turn up and get your name crossed off. There's nothing stopping you just walking out again or casting an invalid vote. And it helps that we've got a preferential voting system, so you can vote for a minor party or an independent without feeling you're throwing your vote away.

This made me remember the South Park episode where Stan didn't want to vote and was cast away because of that [smile]
Also we have a penalty in Turkey for people who don't vote I'm not sure how much it is or if its really charged.I always prefer to vote for the lesser evil.

Quote: Original post by Black Knight
This made me remember the South Park episode where Stan didn't want to vote and was cast away because of that [smile]
Also we have a penalty in Turkey for people who don't vote I'm not sure how much it is or if its really charged.I always prefer to vote for the lesser evil.

It was not charged, at least they did not charge me or anyone I know. I believe it was 5 YTL, which is about $3.50.