Hi all, I'm not going to preface this with a lot. Just basically going to ask for anyone who has a few minutes to listen to my music and give me feedback. I'd like to compose for a living but have not been able to make it happen. Do I even have a chance? Had a few opportunities that never worked out because the people I dealt with were flakes. Please share your thoughts about what I've posted. 6 Compositions by Michael R. Chiaramonte The feedback doesn't have to be positive, but please make it constructive. Thanks in advance. Excited to hear from you! (I apologize if my post seems terse or unfriendly, it's just that I'm trying not to explain myself and let my music do the talking. I generally talk too much :)) Mike [Edited by - Xelius on May 8, 2009 12:02:18 PM]

My workshop mentality is this:

If you have to explain your work, you've failed.

So good job not prefacing with anything, I respect that.

First I want to answer your burning question:

"Do I have what it takes?"

Simple answer: Yes

Complex answer: There's no formula for success, otherwise we'd just do it, there are people who find success with little talent, little success with lots of talent, and lots of talent on their way to success--there are also really talented folks who roll around in beds of money all night long.

The question is essentially unanswerable--just keep trying. Either your tenacity will reward you or your mind will break into a thousand pieces--which ever happens first.

The things I like:

I'm hearing influences, intentional or not, of stuff anywhere from Yasunori Shiono to Jerry Goldsmith--which are some good choices.

There are moments of very nice writing.

Now some glaring problems:

When you use samples, they're really low quality--it's a hard thing to fix but as you continue your seemingly endless journey you will persistently strive to enhance your sound set with better and better tools. You will never really stop doing this, so you better get used to it. As you go along, keep putting aside money that will be reinvestment into your music as a business. This will be used for better samples/instruments, better software/tools, and even travel expenses to trade shows and so forth.

There are some pieces that I feel you used a high school/student performance? Maybe they're even worse? samples, but it sounds like an out of tune high school orchestra/concert band.

Again, maybe something you can't immediately fix--but something you should really focus on.

Things you can fix and homework:

Like I said, you have some really nice writing in places, but you bend the listener's ear perhaps a little too often a little too much. Your game influences are working against you as you utilize compositional form that is a little out-of-date (repetitive, taxing, etc).

So I'm going to give you two listening homeworks that are not immediate influences I hear in your current body of work:

Two Beethoven movements that deal heavily with breathing diversity into simple motif like figures:

">Beethoven's 5th 1st Mvt conducted by Karajan

">Beethoven's 9th 2nd Mvt conducted by Karajan
You need to really analyze these two works to hear how Beethoven dealt with keeping things fresh throughout repeating phrases. Listen for harmonic movement and variation and counter rhythms/moments of relief.

Now some (kinda) video game references:

">The Battle of Gall by Joel McNeely for Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
I want you to listen for rhythmic diversity, flourish, and color/characterization here. The piece is 8 minutes long but every second is fresh and alive with a new compositional idea. Most importantly, development and the concept of moving on.

">The Imperial City by Joel McNeely for Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire
Carefully analyze the instruments used subtly to maintain a single sustained mood during the first couple minutes. Notice how keeping that mood has nothing to do with cutting and pasting the same thing over and over, but is all about holding the atmosphere will maintaining a compositional integrity and development.

There is a predominant rhythm here, but it is often broken with flourish and melodic devices that enter and leave.

Then after 3 minutes notice the dynamic diversity, another repetition--the call and answer is used, like an echo, before segueying into a brass build that climaxes into a huge romantic movement broken by subtle close moments of solo sections.

Analyze these works.

Feel free to ask questions.

Cheers,

Dan's comments are right on the mark! I only have this to add:

Be mindful of your production techniques as well. Often times clients are "wowed" by a big sound that has plenty of depth. Some of that comes from the samples used but some of it also comes from how you produce those samples.

Don't be afraid to have some dynamic contrast.

Finally, some of your music is very epic in scope which is very cool! However, be wary that some video game projects force brevity (usually due to tech and storage issues but also sometimes for design reasons) and having a large scope may not be possible. To be successful in this business you need to be able to create both types of songs: long and short and have them be equally effective and catchy.

You're definitely on the right path!!

Thanks for sharing,

Nate

Dannthr,

First, thank you for such a detailed and thoughtful analysis. It's greatly appreciated.

To answer your question about the samples being low quality: yes, unfortunately "Dark Reflections: A passacaglia and theme" was recorded by a university orchestra of questionable quality but it's the only live performance recording I have. All the rest of the recordings are using Garritan Personal Orchestra (obviously, from your statements, with varying degrees of success).

I will take a listen to the works you referenced, although admittedly I'm very familiar with the Beethoven pieces having had to listen to them extensively for my music degree. However, I will keep your advice in mind and listen to them again to see what I've missed. The latter pieces are new to me so I'll definitely take a good listen to them.

I wanted to add that it's funny that you should reference Beethoven's fifth as it was what provoked me into writing DR. The passacaglia part was an attempt to take a singular simple theme and reuse the material extensively and see if I could make it interesting. If you have time, I'd be interested in getting your feedback if I accomplished that.

I think, in general, though your points are well taken. Thanks again, and I will do my homework :)

Mike

Nate,

Thanks also for your remarks. Great points there too. Dynamic contrast is something I struggle with from a technical perspective because my software does not help me get a good handle on the full dynamic range. Rather, I find myself fighting it more often than not.

Mike

Quote: I wanted to add that it's funny that you should reference Beethoven's fifth as it was what provoked me into writing DR. The passacaglia part was an attempt to take a singular simple theme and reuse the material extensively and see if I could make it interesting. If you have time, I'd be interested in getting your feedback if I accomplished that.

No, I do not feel it was entirely successful, which is why I brought in those particular examples. Sometimes in academics, we regurgitate so often we forget to listen--I would take a fresh ear to those pieces. However, it's also why I brought in McNeely, who has a lot of thematic material repeated throughout but without the listener fatigue.

The motif that enters at 0:40 is either too long or repeats too often. The solo flute isn't strong enough to carry the weight of that heavy motif for as long as it does. There's some kind of effect that chimes in right before the minute mark but it's not enough--something has to help support the flute by 1:00. The motif is just too thick and the flute is just too delicate.

A different motif might be lighter or not require the support of the flute or more involvement from the lower strings might take some of the pressure off the flute, or something, anything, that is supportive to the flute would be good to have by 1:00. The entrance of supportive characters at 1:11 is just too late.

That's what I mean by bending your listener's ear. You make us listen too long for the reward.

That motif continues for 56 seconds, unaltered.

Beethoven would give us that motif, play around, through it around in different sections, echo it here, echo it there, move it across a greater harmonic current.

We can take repetitive something as listeners, but something else has to keep us engaged.

The writing after 1:36 to 2:00 is fine. Afterwhich we turn back to the flute, why? You favor the flute as a solo instrument? What does the flute mean?

Every choice should be defendable.

Still, that woodwind section is a VERY nice relief from the pounding motif, but it took 2:00 for me to get to that reward.

Then the piano comes in, okay.

Consider some kind of support at 2:53 instead of 3:06--it feels like you're very proud of this particular melodic phrase, but that phrase takes so long to complete that by the time I'm ready for something new, it's like 75% done. I was ready for 3:06 at 2:53, seriously--that's when I was ripe for it, that's when you had me.

The trills at the end of that moment, though, a bit schmoltzy--a little like too much icing for a moment that can stand in its own meat.

Then the build, it continues to layer frosting on this cake for like... 15 seconds.

3:56? Are we even in the same piece? Okay, so what I realize at about 4:06 is that the first 2 and a half minutes of the piece was total fluff--seriously? Talk about manic--the second half of the piece is so over the top schmoltz almost to the point of insincerity, and the first half is such underwhelming action music, repetitive, and almost frustrating to listen to that I want to turn it off before I even get to the very nice moments of good stuff.

Listen to the McNeely examples both for how to change moods (the first one) and how to sustain moods (second one) without bending our ear or frustrating us with repetition.

Quote: Original post by Xelius
Nate,

Thanks also for your remarks. Great points there too. Dynamic contrast is something I struggle with from a technical perspective because my software does not help me get a good handle on the full dynamic range. Rather, I find myself fighting it more often than not.

Mike

You're going to be fighting with samples for the rest of your career. I've made decent money doing just that for people who can't or don't have to the time to do it themselves.

First of all, I found your music enjoyable. There are some barriers you'll have to break in order to become a more versatile composer in the industry. You've got some great compositional ideas, but you'll need some better sounds. There are too many media composers out there with professional-sounding VST's who will beat you out for composition spots despite the fact that your music might be more complex and interesting. Now you might be thinking...well that's not true because in the world of film or game music, live orchestras play the music. This is true to an extent, but the grand majority of games and independent films do not have the funding for a large-scale orchestra, and are forced to use smaller groups of musicians, or resort to using orchestral music using fake VST instruments, which is why it's so important to invest in these VST's if you're serious about making it in the industry. Hope I was of help.

Quote: Original post by Dannthr

No, I do not feel it was entirely successful, which is why I brought in those particular examples. Sometimes in academics, we regurgitate so often we forget to listen--I would take a fresh ear to those pieces. However, it's also why I brought in McNeely, who has a lot of thematic material repeated throughout but without the listener fatigue...

Thank you for such a detailed analysis. You've given me a lot to think about and I will take your advice to heart. Much of what you've said I wondered about myself but had been told by others otherwise. Thanks for being so clear and honest.

Jeff,

Thanks for your encouragement :-)

Mike

Thanks againe for you sharing!