http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090322/ap_on_re_us/police_shot_ca

A half decent military unit wouldn't have got butchered like that SWAT team. What they were thinking he took down two officers that same day.

[Edited by - Calin on March 22, 2009 10:34:12 AM]

A great SWAT team would wipe the floor with them. DELTAS a multi task version of SEALS. Top notch SWAT teams are pros in urban assault.

Put it this way, if you're a special operator in the military you get trained by SWAT in urban combat, not the other way around.

Quote: Original post by Calin
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090322/ap_on_re_us/police_shot_ca

A half decent military unit wouldn't have got butchered like that SWAT team. What they were thinking he took down two officers that same day.

What are you talking about? Decent and top notch military units get ambushed and take similar hits all the time. With automatic weapons and SWAT units usually wearing only light armour, it doesn't take much of a burst from a high powered assault rifle to take out two or three men in close quarters.


In a prepared defensive position, I would expect a military special forces to win, for the simple reason of high explosives trump rifles.

But in either case I would expect few survivors on either side in such a battle.

Quote: Talroth: User Rating: 1337

Epic!

Quote: Original post by tstrimp
Whereas SWAT teams are limited by their city budget.

I meant something like NY SWAT or HRT.

Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
Put it this way, if you're a special operator in the military you get trained by SWAT in urban combat, not the other way around.

This isn't always the case. My brother was a CQB specialist in the marines (Recapture Tactical Team, Security Forces in Washington State) who's objective was to retake the nuke plant in case of a hostile takeover. Most of their training was in Quanitco and I believe the cqb specialists they trained with were in the DEA.

The main reason I think SWAT would get their asses handed to them, is their most often used against against targets who have no military training and are extremely outmatched in terms of equipment. Read up on SWAT raids, they are mostly targeting people in their home who have no idea that they are about to be raided. If they encountered hardened resistance from a military force who was expecting them, I believe they would be decimated.

The Marine RTT team is aware of this and they put the average life expectancy of a RTT marine to be around 12 seconds after breach. They actually are trained to retake a building from a military unit who is expecting them.

Thanks for your responses!

Quote: Original post by Ravuya
Which team is Batman on?

Quote: Forum rule
Chat about anything you feel like, but keep it mature and civil.

You lose. ;)

You have SWAT, which is made up of trained policeman, who are trained to operate in barricaded suspect situations, possibly with hostages, in an attempt to uphold the law and minimize casualties.

And then you have Delta Force, which is made up of the most elite of all the special forces and soldiers in the army. They are trained in urban combat against military, terrorists, hijacking situations, AND barricaded suspect situations with hostages. Their mission can be elimination of targets, hostage rescue, or to recapture an objective.

For starters, there is no official "SWAT team", each police department is responsible for their own unit. That being said, anyone that says SWAT would win doesn't understand what Delta Force is. This is not the army that uses tanks and jets. They are elite counter-terrorism units. They are like SWAT on steroids. It would be akin to taking the best people from every SWAT team in the country, giving them all the resources of the army, and training them in a multitude of scenarios against a vast array of opponents.

Quote:
Put it this way, if you're a special operator in the military you get trained by SWAT in urban combat, not the other way around.

Yes Deltas can train with SWAT in urban combat. They also train with seals, rangers, marine recon, coast guard, paratroopers, SAS, and SM. They do this to make sure that they are well trained and have the best of all skillsets, not just one. Being in a SWAT team would not qualify you for getting into Delta Force. Being in Delta Force would all but guarantee you would make it into a SWAT team.

Quote: Original post by ChurchSkiz

Quote:
Put it this way, if you're a special operator in the military you get trained by SWAT in urban combat, not the other way around.

Yes Deltas can train with SWAT in urban combat. They also train with seals, rangers, marine recon, coast guard, paratroopers, SAS, and SM. They do this to make sure that they are well trained and have the best of all skillsets, not just one. Being in a SWAT team would not qualify you for getting into Delta Force. Being in Delta Force would all but guarantee you would make it into a SWAT team.

I'm no fan of the police, so this is no sort of cheerleading but there used to be a television show that matched teams against each other in urban combat.

They used the MILES system, and if you've ever trained with it you know it has shortcomings(because its a laser a leaf counts as hard cover) but the upshot is SWAT teams destroyed DELTA, SEALS, SAS, you name it.

I thought certain branches would own it, mainly Rangers and SEALS but they got their asses handed to them consistently.

I tried to google a bit to find a link to the season results but I only find some old articles explaining the show.

Link

Quote:
Alpha," "Bravo," "Charlie" and "Delta" are the four teams of Combat Missions, each comprised of a mixture of 24 highly trained men, the military and law enforcement's elite: Green Berets, Marine Recons, Navy SEALS, Delta Force, S.W.A.T., CIA spec ops, and others. These men were carefully selected from over 700 applicants - they are soldiers, warriors and heroes, all brought together to Camp Windstorm, a secret military base, where the contestants live and compete against each other for 15 weeks. Located in the middle of the Mojave desert, Camp Windstorm was created and designed specifically for Combat Missions.

Randomly assembled into four six-man squads, the contestants must endure grueling contests, punishing exercises, and brutal military missions. Losing a mission means discharging one man from the team. The winning squad earns the right to compete in the individual competition to see who will reign as the combat missions champion. These men are full of honor, integrity, and respect -- and none of them like to lose. The series will also highlight the drama occurring at the base, and the real-life dramas of combat histories.

'Survivor' and former Navy SEAL Master Chief Rudy Boesch serves as "Camp Commander" of Camp Windstorm. Boesch is the longest serving Navy S.E.A.L. and a recipient of the Bronze Star Medal for heroic action during more than 45 combat operations in the Republic of Vietnam.

The Combat Missions contestants used MILES 2000, a sophisticated laser-based military training system that San Diego's Cubic Defense Systems developed for the U.S. Army, U.S. Marine Corps and international forces. Because MILES 2000 allows soldiers and marines to fire infrared laser impulses from the same weapons and vehicles used in actual combat, it is the most realistic force-on-force training available. MILES 2000's "After Action Review" technology accurately records simulated casualties for replay and analysis by military commanders.

The top-notch technical advisory team for Combat Missions includes U.S. Marine Recon James D. Dever (Windtalker); L.A.P.D. S.W.A.T. Don Anderson (Heat, Seven, The Cell); U.S. Navy SEAL John Rottger (The Fugitive, Lethal Weapon 4); U.S. Army Captain Laurance A. Weaver (U.S. Marshals series); special effects coordinator Gary D'Amico (Vanilla Sky, Play it to the Bone); special effects pyrotechnic foreman Dave Domeyer (Windtalker, Boyz in the Hood); and weapons consultant Bill Ungerman (Pearl Harbor, Under Seige), who served with the U.S. Marine Corps & Army.

It was pretty neat to watch. One SEAL team did pretty well but there was a lot of urban assault tests and the SWAT teams just owned them. The teams were mixed up so you'd have SWAT with DELTA and such but individual performance had SWAT way ahead. A SWAT member won the game as well.

I recall a specific guy, kind of a pudgy white dude that was a sharpshooter for a SWAT team in Atlanta. He drug his team down in all of the physical fitness test and looked like he didn't belong, but every time they went to a "live" fire exercise where they simulated combat he was a killing machine.

One episode he was in a prone position on a hill covering the entry teams battery and killed the opposing team one by one through his view of a window.

Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
It was pretty neat to watch. One SEAL team did pretty well but there was a lot of urban assault tests and the SWAT teams just owned them. The teams were mixed up so you'd have SWAT with DELTA and such but individual performance had SWAT way ahead. A SWAT member won the game as well.

I hope you're not basing your entire opinion on a reality tv show. Contestants are chosen based more on their personality then any real talent they might have. Then you have factor in the fact that active duty military personnel could not participate. You get SWAT members who are still working, training on a regular basis, vs guys who have been out of the military for a while. It's similar to saying that American Idol really finds the best vocalists in the USA.