INTRODUCTORY MESSAGE: Hello. I just recently signed up today, although I've known of this site for a while now. It seemed like the perfect site and opportunity to get my ideas known, (or at least heard), to others. Please read this entire post before you say anything, okay? I honestly do want to make my profession game designing. Although I'm still on the rocks about it as a real career: it's certainly being considered and thought over carefully. {Mind that I am only fifteen; I still have a while.} I suppose you could call me a serious gamer, because I love MMORPGs above all other kind of games out there, and am specifically interested in creating MMORPGs only. My current inspiration is NC Soft, (who's translating Aion - Tower of Eternity and releasing Blade & Soul on July 31st.) Twelve Sky 2 is also in there somewhere as well. I am EXTREMELY picky when it comes to game quality, whether it be graphic-wise, or just gameplay in general. I -will- not play a game if it doesn't have good graphics, call me shallow. And I -will- not play cliche games like WoW, Ragnarok Online, Diablo, Secret of The Solstice, ect. (These are just my opinions). To give you some examples of how many MMORPGs I -have- played, I will name off the ones I have played over the years. Some have been more long-term than others, and some I have just quit after a few levels or so. The reasoning could have been because they were boring after a while if I truly did like them. They are the following: - 9Dragons - ArchLord - Dream of Mirror Online; (DoMo) - Florensia - Last Chaos - Cabal Online - Kal Online - Lineage II - QWorld - Celestial Destroyer - Perfect World - NeoSteam - Maple Story - Grand Chase - 2Moons - World of Kung Fu - Hero Online - Flyff - Holic Online - Eudemons Online - Talisman Online - Corum Online - Atlantica Online - Zu Online I can't even name them all, because I know there's more. But as you can see, I've at least played the majority of decent and free MMORPGs out there, and am anticipating NC-Soft's creations. There were things I liked in some, and things that just annoyed the hell out of me. It just got so annoying to see the same things all over again. Apparently, I like 3D games more. I have wonderful ideas that could revolutionize the MMO world, though. Even simple things like level limitations, or brand new things altogether. I really hope when NC Soft releases Aion and Blade & Soul, game developers would want to do better than they did, and create an even better MMO, and gradually the games start getting better. I saw that developing in Perfect World, Twelve Sky 2, and Celestial Destoryer. I hope to make a whole lot of MMORPGs when I actually go to college for it, but I'm oh sooo~ impatient. IMPORTANT NOTES: Yeah, because I stated my age, I'll get a lot of: "you don't know what you're talking about"; "start off easy," ect. I -do- know that MMORPGs can be one of the most difficult ones to program, especially because it's online and anyone around the world can coincide in it. I also know it takes years to create one--But I'll have fun doing it! I also know, in the eyes of others, my opinions and ideas are petty. But I don't care. I always want to be the one to change things that I think are stupid and cliche, so I'll do exactly that. I'm also super-creative, and care about the goodness and quality of my game. I don't want it to be just another game out there, but one of the best. I want people to reach level 100+ and still not get bored, because there'll be so much to do! Hopefully, someday, I can achieve that. Below are the ideas I have for when I make an MMORPG, and hopefully some games will take my advice. My storyline isn't well-developed yet, only what will be implemented in the game. I'll edit my post later on to accomodate people who might want to know more. Thank you. IDEAS / OPINIONS OF A/AN MMORPG(S): Graphics / environment: I truly care about good-quality MMORPGs, so I want mine to be the very best it can be. I'm very much so into fantasy worlds, with beauty everywhere, and mystical things. xD Call me far-fetched. So, I'd say at least in the majority of the maps, there'll be blue skies, waterfalls, and lots of green all around. I also want it to where your character can walk through shallow lake and water. I kind of like what Aion's dishing out graphic-wise, and I want my MMO to have a soft appeal to the graphics and not so rough. Character customization feature: Ugh. You don't know how many times character customization has been a problem. So many games limit how your character can look! It should be totally customizable with no limits. There'll be tons of hair styles to choose from, and every color imaginable for things such as skin, eye, hair, and cloth color. There will also be a ton of pre-sets for people who are stuck, and markings on the face or arm to make it even more special. Beginners can even have a wide selection of beginner's clothing, so even noobs will look different! On the character selection screen, you should also have the option of changing your look at will if you get bored with it. I don't see a downside to it. Unique classes / Skills: I'm tired of games that have the same exact classes all the time! Can't you guys come up with something better? What's wrong with combining a magic caster with a swordsman? There's no rule that says you can't! I want to combine classes, make up brand new ones, and make their skills look cool. A lot of people want original skills that do some awesome things, but look cool too. Whether you're a low level or not--they still need to look pretty! I'm also going to make a summoner which is -fully functional-, has appealing-looking summons, and make the summon do complex things. They can also fight for themselves so the game will be interesting. There will also be no 'crystals' or other objects needed just to summon a pet. It'll balance itself out. Every summoner in a game epically fails, so I'd like to fix that. :/ Oh! And... I want to make each class have an AOE section in their menu. Mobbing is always fun! Races: You don't know how many times I ran into games with the -ugliest- classes I have ever seen. Honestly: what were you guys thinking? I want to make adorable/cool-looking races. So awesome that it's hard to choose which one you want to be! Races will also have meaning. Certain races have set-in bonuses when you pick one, too, such as refinement probability is heightened, or they naturally have a faster running speed. I will -not- make races class or gender specific, nor will I make classes race or gender specific. It's stupid, and although it'll be more work: I'm up for the challenge. Also, costume designs will look different on each race depending upon personality. But they will -all- look good. Race-based starter continents & player separation: Okay, okay. So different races start on different continents to get started and learn the story behind their own race and grow up with their own kind. I think that's an awesome idea, but not when you can't play with your friends because they decided to be a different race! I will make it so at certain level specifications, you can use certain portals crossing over into their continent. Just because you move doesn't mean that you won't get quests or skills, either, because they aren't race-specific! See how that works out? At level 10-15 or so, I'll make it so that you can use portals outside of your continent. This way, there'll be no people who accidentally portal to places where monsters are higher-level than them, and so they can get the story of their race. This way it'll be a true MMORPG, and you can have more fun! Player stats: Does anyone remember when you were able to change stats such as dex, strength, spirit, ect? Most games don't do that anymore! I think the main reason is because most say that you'll "mess up" your character. If everyone had the same stats, they'd be all the same, and that isn't a sense of individuality. They can also write guides on how to prevent that, and tips in case you want to make your class a hybrid, you know? Then that'll eliminate the problem. I want to bring that back in my game. Player-run shops: Usually the shop system in any game is okay, but I want to one-up other games. To prevent over-pricing, I might put a price limit on items. They can sell for as low as they'd like, but not as high. I know a lot of players just love to over-price things, and that just isn't fair. But I will, however, be fair with how high they can go. I won't cap the price really cheap, so don't worry. I'm still on the fence about creating an auction house, or shops where players sit there over night and sell things. That'll be under consideration. Pets: I dislike that pets cannot fight with you. That's part of the fun, right? They will be able to fight with you and help you out during battle. They'll also have individual skills, just like your character does! I'll also have armor for them, too. They'll also be able to level up and gradually, (at a certain level), become your mount as well. They'll be able to evolve into bigger forms. The commands will be complex as well, and I won't have a strict loyalty system. I'd say that you could have up to 2-3 pets at a time. I'll have sooo many different pets that all look super-cool. They won't be cash shop items, either. You could simply earn them through semi-tough quests to complete so that it'll be fair. I don't think I'll put a level limitation on when you can get a pet, though. Probably something small like level 5 or 10. I'm not sure yet, though. Mounts: When your pet evolves into its 3rd stage, (I might make a few stages after that, also), it can become your mount. I think I'll try to adjust a flying option for every pet so that it'll be fair, but if you get up to 2-3 pets at a time, I guess you can get a flying one and leave the other ones ground-bound. I want my mounts and pets to look mystical, not just like other animals. They'll be more epic in their later forms, though. So, so far, there's no sacrificing an arm and a leg for your pet, you get the one you want, they become your mount at a reasonable level, they won't leave you, and they'll actually have a purpose in the game. I kind of like a servitor system, too, so you can have human-creature-like minions as well. They'll probably do something different than pets, though. Costume Designs / Armor: I really liked the idea of being super-creative with armor. A lot of games have big level gaps in their armor, so I'd say every 5 or 10 levels would be acceptable, but it all depends on how my experience rates are set. I also liked ArchLord's idea of finding rare or unique items sets, which are basically ones that are a different style or color for that level. I liked 9Dragon's idea to have special fashion that can go -on top- of your armor if you'd like to spice it up a bit. All of my designs will be creative, and everything will be set at a modest price. Armor dropped from monsters can be subject to having some really juicy bonuses. Weapons: I want to make all of my weapons unique-looking, and epic, regardless of level. I want them to be completely original, too. Like... for example... not too many games made fan-bearing characters, and I don't think I've seen scythes yet. I also like the claw idea, rather than fists. Dual-wielding is certainly going to be a BIG thing in my game as well. Gathering / collection system: I want to make designated areas for collecting materials, because there'll be alchemy in the game. You buy certain tools and can sit your character there for hours and mine/chop/pull, ect stuff. It will also be sell-able so that you can make a quick buck every once in a while. Recipes for alchemy will either be rare monster drops or you can find them hidden somewhere. I guess I'll make some basic ones attainable from quests, as well. Item capabilities: It's not very fair that so many items can have cool downs. I want a token to automatically be in your inventory when you start the game, that is a permanent portal to the last town you visited, and there can be an NPC that sells different, one-use travel tokens whether it be to and from where you last visited, or whatever to make it fair. I'd make, at the most, town portals have a cool-down of ten minutes opposed to one hour. I also want a noob item that instantly restores your health and can only be used a certain amount of times; (to be fair, again.) Refinement system: A lot of refinement systems aren't very good. A lot of the time, weapon chances fail, and most games make the weapons break and disappear forever. Although, to prevent people from making ridiculous weapons or armor, I can see why this feature is implemented. I mean, I'll make refinement chances fail, but not make your weapon break! It's a waste of money, and plain-old not fair. ArchLord was fair with their system, and they inspired me. Maps: A feature which will be implemented will be a map-trace feature. I liked how Celestial Destroyer's went. You clicked anywhere on the map and it took you there. Your character also avoided things such as trees, rocks, and mountains. It's very useful. With my map design, I'm going to make the mini-map relatively bigger in detail. It gets annoying when you don't know where you're going, and a world map gives you just that--a world map! Not a town map. When you're in towns, I suppose when you open the world map you can see the full layout of where everything is, such as NPCs and shops. ArchLord did a great job of this as well. Everything in town will be in big, general labels, such as: "Pet Shop", "Potion Shop", ect. Each map will have a level limit, such as map 1 being the noobie map, consisting of monsters level 1-15, and map 2 containing 20-35. Your destination or something in a quest that you need to kill/find will also be marked on the map for your use. When an NPC needs your help with something, there will also be an exclamation mark above their heads and displayed on the map. Quests: Going hand-in-hand with the map trace feature, is the quest aspect. I will make it so that every quest is 100% accurate, and if it's a killing or, "find it" quest, your progress will be displayed somewhere on the screen when you have your quest menu closed. It will also display rewards, specific EXP amounts, ect. "Find it" missions won't be super-impossible as well. That truly annoys me when I'm here for hours looking for one more item a monster has to drop, and the probability of it is nearly one in a million. What Celestial Destroyer did is display monsters and NPC's names in green, which were clickable! All you did was click it, and it automatically map-traced you to where the person, monster, or item was. In addition, quests will be level-specific. Quests show up as you level up, so that you won't be in over your head when you need to kill a boss and it's ten levels higher than you, when you should be doing noobie quests. It will also make it so that quests help you level up, but you're not completely reliant on them. I know a lot of games that, to level up, they rely on quests only and monsters give little EXP. That's no fun! Monsters & monster drops: I want all of my monsters to be unique and spawn rather quickly. I also want them to be in large groups. I remember in Lineage II one time. They were so far apart, it took me hours to get to just a few levels. I hate that! I want them to be organized level-wise. I also won't make them too powerful, but an awesome challenge, yet easy to mob. Some will be easier to mob than others, too. I know a lot of games that, when you go up in levels, they just change: "young wolf" to, "wolf", which annoys me. That isn't very original! I understand that for at least 100+ levels you run out of ideas, but games do it with practically all of their monsters. I also want my monsters to look good, but not cutesy, nor too mideval-esque. They also won't have big level gaps, either. There will be a variety of monsters to choose from when you're a certain level. I think the gaps in monster-levels will be no more than 1-3. Also, if you attack a monster which is a level up from you: it doesn't hurt you as much as you would've originally thought. Even another level or two won't severely damage you. Their level will also be displayed to you, instead of looking at what color their name is. But obviously whether you see their level or not, if a level 1 is looking at a level 20: the name is going to be red, just so you don't have to click on the monster to see a level, and ones your level will be white. Monsters can also drop really cool things, whether it be rare items, armor, a lot of gold, or health/mana potions. I think that health and mana potions should be dropped every kill, because I'm tired of games over-pricing potions. This way, you won't have to spend as much money! In addition, I want them to give decent experience so that it doesn't take you forever to level up, but doesn't spoon-feed you, either. In-game events: GMs will always be at your disposal. At least one will, anyway. I suppose weekly there will be an event held. I'm not exactly sure what kinds, but there'll definitely be. You could get limited edition, (or rare) prizes if you win. There can also be something seasonal, so you get certain drops from monsters on a certain holiday and can exchange them for something good with a special-edition NPC! This'll make the game both fun and interesting. I might also spawn huge bosses in the middle of town for people to defeat. That'll be fun, huh? XD NPCs: All of my NPCs will be designed, (and dressed), well. They'll also have good grammar. I know a lot of games that have horrible grammar, translation issues, and/or severe typos that they don't fix, and actually think they're right! Their names will be self-explanatory, so if there was an apothecary, it will be displayed. I won't choose lengthy names so that you can tell ultimately what the NPC is. And when you click on the NPC, (and mind you this is undecided), I'd like you to get a full-screen view of them until you hit "cancel". I'm pretty sure 9Dragons did this, but I'm not positive. I don't know how to describe it, either. Think of it as a PS2-3 kind of feature. It depends on whether it's laggy or not. Town/Building design: Although I'm not completely sure of town layouts or designs, I have ideas of where some things will be placed and how things will be run. I'd like characters to actually go inside buildings to talk to NPCs, but make it big enough so it's not crowded, laggy, or makes your screen wig out. I like the concept. I also would like all NPCs to stick together. For example, Dual-wielding armor seller and skill teacher will be next to one another, and so will the rest of the different-class armor and skill teachers. They're going to be in one big group. The basic-needs NPCs, such as the black smith, merchant, auction house guy, player-run shops, and storage will be in the middle of town near convenient portals, (see next section for more on my portal ideas). This way, towns can be navigate-able. There will be one big, main, centerpiece square, however, where events will be held. During holidays, I'll also dress up the town according to what holiday it is! Portals: Portals are convenient for those who are lazy: even with map-trace. If they're far away, usually games make the portals cost a whole lot just to get there. That will be no more! I'm not sure if I will charge a very MINIMAL amount for portals, or nothing at all, but I think paying a lot of money is ridiculous. Marriage / lover system: I think the marriage system is pretty cool, but only if it works properly and has enough features. A lot of the time it takes an arm and a leg just to marry someone! That's not very fair. I'll probably have an NPC just for people who want to get married, and there'll be no restriction on it. I'll probably just make the couple do a few quests and then they get married. Nothing lengthy; nothing hard. Then they'll be awarded an engagement ring by the NPC, and so long as they're wearing it, they can have some relationship skills, such as randomly reviving your loved one, or healing them even if your class isn't designed for that. They can also carry and cuddle each other in public. :] How cute~ Flying feature: I'm going to make it so players have wings. (Kinda cliche sometimes, I know, but I think it'd be fun). You automatically get wings to equip in your inventory that can neither be trashed nor dropped, and wings will look different based on your race. I might also set up a shop that has special, different wings along with the different fashion that can go atop your armor. I'm still on the fence about it, though. Perhaps they'll be given away at events. Who knows? I'll make it so you can fly and lay upon trees, or jump on buildings, (which would be really cool for PVP by the way). There'll be no limits to what you can fly on! Wings might be for just getting to high places or for fun, so I might put in a "flying on your weapon" feature. That'd be cool, although DoMo has already done it. I dislike their designated landing areas, though. **PLEASE NOTE THAT I JUST WANT COMMENTARY. I DON'T WANT ANY RUDENESS IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH MY OPINIONS AND/OR VIEWS ON MMORPGS. IF YOU HAVE ANYMORE TIPS TO IMPROVE MY VISION, PLEASE SHARE WITH ME. THANK YOU.** My storyline will be coming soon! I'm still not sure how it's going to go, yet. Please be patient. :3 Thanks for taking your time to read this post.

You don't know what you're talking about. Start off easy. Etc. :P

Do you want to actually make a game with all these features? If so, what can you do right now (programming/art related)?

Also, why the hatred for "cliche" games? I'm positive they must have done something right with the amount of people that play them.

Quote:

Original post by link3333 You don't know what you're talking about. Start off easy. Etc. :P Do you want to actually make a game with all these features? If so, what can you do right now (programming/art related)? Also, why the hatred for "cliche" games? I'm positive they must have done something right with the amount of people that play them.

Oh, actually I do want to start a team. n.n; I want to make a team of my own, but obviously I can't do that yet. xD These are just tons of stuff I have in my head for the time being. I'm not sure if that's even all of it!

Oh, and I know little-to-nothing when it comes to game programming. I want to be the actual idea-maker-person...thing. Although I know that you need a moderate understanding in each field of your team members and need to take classes, ect. I'm a pro at PhotoShop, though, so there's a start. I'm self-taught. I make pretty stuff all the time on my design site. ^.^

Oh, btw, my boyfriend keeps arguing that the games mentioned were awesome, (except wow anyway), but I dunno. I dislike the graphics, and Ragnarok is 2D. Those kinda things annoy me, unless it's maple story or grand chase. xD I also despise games that literally -everyone- talks about. I prefer mostly newer games.

Ty for reading that lonnnggg paragraph, btw. <.<;

Some of these ideas are pretty good, and I don't want to discourage you, but you're probably going to have to wait a long time before you're able to make it. If you go the hobbyist route, you're almost guaranteed to need some sort of applicable skill with developing the game, whether that be creating art or code. Why should those who can create listen to those who cannot? Also, you'll have the benefit of being able to understand why something takes as long as it does or why it's unreasonable to create. If you go the professional route, good luck. I'm still not quite sure how someone gets a job as a game designer. I'd assume someone with seniority at a company with an idea or someone with some fine skills in writing or art and with a company that is specifically hiring designers.

Oh, try not to be too shallow with older games. Graphics can immerse a player, but ultimately it's the gameplay that makes it good. There are a lot of good older games with bad graphics by today's standard, and you may learn something from them. You could even say WoW has bad graphics. They aren't the best, but while they've lowered the polygon count to run on more machines, they have done a beautiful job in texturing which makes up for it. Ragnarok may not be in full 3D, but by using 2D and 3D, it had a unique look which has served them well since 2001.

Quote:

Original post by link3333 Some of these ideas are pretty good, and I don't want to discourage you, but you're probably going to have to wait a long time before you're able to make it. If you go the hobbyist route, you're almost guaranteed to need some sort of applicable skill with developing the game, whether that be creating art or code. Why should those who can create listen to those who cannot? Also, you'll have the benefit of being able to understand why something takes as long as it does or why it's unreasonable to create. If you go the professional route, good luck. I'm still not quite sure how someone gets a job as a game designer. I'd assume someone with seniority at a company with an idea or someone with some fine skills in writing or art and with a company that is specifically hiring designers. Oh, try not to be too shallow with older games. Graphics can immerse a player, but ultimately it's the gameplay that makes it good. There are a lot of good older games with bad graphics by today's standard, and you may learn something from them. You could even say WoW has bad graphics. They aren't the best, but while they've lowered the polygon count to run on more machines, they have done a beautiful job in texturing which makes up for it. Ragnarok may not be in full 3D, but by using 2D and 3D, it had a unique look which has served them well since 2001.

Thank you very much for your advice. :] I certainly know that it's not an easy thing to do, and I do suppose you're right. It's about the gameplay, ultimately. I suppose I'm just not on the same page as you because I really cared about graphics. My boyfriend was trying to tell me something like that as well. I'll certainly take what you said into consideration. I'm just so psyched about all of the ideas that I have. They're so different, you know? I'm not sure why games didn't think of this, or something may have stopped them from doing them. I dunno. I guess summoning and pet systems can be complex things, along with many other things I mentioned. I'm taking C++ next year, by the way, so perhaps I'll get more familiarized with things. n.n

Don't get me wrong, I still care about graphics. In my opinion, great graphics and art can really help sell a game (thanks to compulsive buyers), but gameplay issues won't make people want to come back for more.

For why games don't have some of your features: if you let someone fly in your game, you have more work to do. You've got to produce all the art from above (no cutting corners with things never to be seen from the ground), you've got to do Level Of Detail stuff since from the air you can generally see more, you have to worry about collision in the air instead of just on the ground plane, and there's gameplay mechanics that need to be programmed to allow flight. So it's probably not cost effective to do all of this stuff, or the budget can't support it, or the game has got to be shipped by a certain date, or while it may be cool, it may not fit with the design of the game.

Quote:

Original post by Ikatsu **PLEASE NOTE THAT I JUST WANT COMMENTARY. I DON'T WANT ANY RUDENESS IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH MY OPINIONS AND/OR VIEWS ON MMORPGS. IF YOU HAVE ANYMORE TIPS TO IMPROVE MY VISION, PLEASE SHARE WITH ME. THANK YOU.**

Heh. Since you've obviously spent a ton of time writing this up, I'll do what I can to read through and offer commentary. I shall try not to be rude, but 'improve the vision' might require it.

Quote:

I suppose you could call me a serious gamer, because I love MMORPGs above all other kind of games out there, and am specifically interested in creating MMORPGs only.

I wouldn't call you a serious gamer because of that. I'd argue against it with that sort of limited interest, but 'tis merely opinion.

Quote:

I -will- not play a game if it doesn't have good graphics, call me shallow.

You're shallow, and foolish.

Quote:

And I -will- not play cliche games like WoW, Ragnarok Online, Diablo, Secret of The Solstice, ect. (These are just my opinions).

Absolutism does you no good. Snobbishness neither.

Quote:

I have wonderful ideas that could revolutionize the MMO world, though.

So have many other people, even people who are far closer to being in a place to implement them. Since they've not come to fruition there's probably some reason that they weren't (or couldn't be) implemented.

Quote:

Even simple things like level limitations,

Even if there's not a hard limit, there's always going to be a soft limit due to limitations on content. And it could easily be argued that hard limits are necessary in PvP environs.

Quote:

I really hope when NC Soft releases Aion and Blade & Soul, game developers would want to do better than they did, and create an even better MMO, and gradually the games start getting better.

Computer games have been getting better for 30 years. The desire to one up the other guy is human nature, and to think that it's not been happening (or that one release could trigger it) is naive.

Quote:

I -do- know that MMORPGs can be one of the most difficult ones to program, especially because it's online and anyone around the world can coincide in it.

No, no you don't. Everyone says they know how hard it is to make, but you don't know why and you don't have a good grasp of the scope of how much harder it is. MMOs are not linearly more difficult than online rpg games, they are exponentially more difficult.

Quote:

I'm also super-creative, and care about the goodness and quality of my game.

As if current developers aren't the most skilled and creative in their fields, or they want to make a crappy game...

Quote:

Character customization feature: Ugh. You don't know how many times character customization has been a problem. So many games limit how your character can look! It should be totally customizable with no limits. I don't see a downside to it.

Which adds to the bandwidth needed to transfer the details of the character (and db space to store it), so you'll need to detract from other things. And it'll add to cost to develop an effective UI to do all of that customization effectively.

Quote:

Unique classes / Skills: I'm tired of games that have the same exact classes all the time! Can't you guys come up with something better? What's wrong with combining a magic caster with a swordsman? There's no rule that says you can't!

Except that there will invariably be some sort of min/maxing available. Making options available is pointless if there's only one effective choice.

Quote:

I want to combine classes, make up brand new ones, and make their skills look cool.

Games are fun. Sitting in a CAD program designing spell effects is boring. As a designer, dealing with spell effects that are exploitive, vulgar, or otherwise undesirable is annoying (and costly).

Quote:

I'm also going to make a summoner which is -fully functional-, has appealing-looking summons, and make the summon do complex things.

Why would anyone not be a summoner then?

Quote:

There will also be no 'crystals' or other objects needed just to summon a pet.

Then how are you going to balance summons to make it useful to play other classes? Make the summons weak? That's no fun.

Quote:

It'll balance itself out.

Hah!

No. Things balance themselves out if the game design (the math) or human natures makes it balance out. Otherwise everyone will quickly be the best class, or fight the weakest mobs with the best drops; get bored and quit.

Quote:

Races: You don't know how many times I ran into games with the -ugliest- classes I have ever seen. Honestly: what were you guys thinking? I want to make adorable/cool-looking races.

And other people don't. And other people could care less what their character looks like as long as they kick ass and take names.

Quote:

But they will -all- look good.

Good luck finding (and paying for) a team of all-star modellers and artists.

Quote:

Player stats: Does anyone remember when you were able to change stats such as dex, strength, spirit, ect? Most games don't do that anymore! I think the main reason is because most say that you'll "mess up" your character.

No, it's because people invariably min/max their character. Picking skill points ceases to be a choice. Either you pick the best or you suck. People that don't know better (or are actually playing the game rather than gaming a system) will suck. Alienating your playerbase is not good.

Quote:

They can also write guides on how to prevent that, and tips in case you want to make your class a hybrid, you know? Then that'll eliminate the problem.

That assumes people will read the guides. Not everyone wants to read through random web-forums just to effectively play a game...

Quote:

Player-run shops: But I will, however, be fair with how high they can go.

Good luck with that. 'fair' doesn't exist for MMO developer decisions.

Quote:

Pets: I dislike that pets cannot fight with you. That's part of the fun, right? They will be able to fight with you and help you out during battle. They'll also have individual skills, just like your character does! I'll also have armor for them, too. They'll also be able to level up and gradually, (at a certain level), become your mount as well. They'll be able to evolve into bigger forms. The commands will be complex as well, and I won't have a strict loyalty system. I'd say that you could have up to 2-3 pets at a time. I'll have sooo many different pets that all look super-cool. They won't be cash shop items, either. You could simply earn them through semi-tough quests to complete so that it'll be fair. I don't think I'll put a level limitation on when you can get a pet, though. Probably something small like level 5 or 10. I'm not sure yet, though.

Again, lots of added complexity to balance and content to create. Might be easier to just allow multiple characters in a party. (oh the good old days...)

Quote:

Weapons: I want to make all of my weapons unique-looking, and epic, regardless of level. I want them to be completely original, too.

Sure, once you have that team of all-star artists/modellers, should be a piece of cake.

Quote:

Gathering / collection system: I want to make designated areas for collecting materials, because there'll be alchemy in the game. You buy certain tools and can sit your character there for hours and mine/chop/pull, ect stuff.

Woo, fun.

Quote:

It will also be sell-able so that you can make a quick buck every once in a while.

A few quick pennies maybe. If it takes no time and energy, the cost to farm the stuff is dependent only on your patience or the number of email addresses you can get to make accounts from (which really isn't too hard).

Quote:

Item capabilities: It's not very fair that so many items can have cool downs.

No, but it's even less fair for ungodly spamming or keybinding to make most of your players unable to run the game.

Quote:

I want a token to automatically be in your inventory when you start the game, that is a permanent portal to the last town you visited, and there can be an NPC that sells different, one-use travel tokens whether it be to and from where you last visited, or whatever to make it fair.

Sure, teleportation potions. I'm not sure why it needs to be an item rather than an ability; but whatever. Usually such things are items to be a gold sink.

Quote:

Refinement system: A lot of refinement systems aren't very good. A lot of the time, weapon chances fail, and most games make the weapons break and disappear forever. Although, to prevent people from making ridiculous weapons or armor, I can see why this feature is implemented. I mean, I'll make refinement chances fail, but not make your weapon break! It's a waste of money, and plain-old not fair.

Uh huh. MMO economies need gold sinks. And making someone take 20 chances rather than 5 to make a godlike weapon isn't going to prevent tons of godlike weapons floating around.

Quote:

Maps: A feature which will be implemented will be a map-trace feature. I liked how Celestial Destroyer's went. You clicked anywhere on the map and it took you there. Your character also avoided things such as trees, rocks, and mountains. It's very useful.

Yup.

Quote:

With my map design, I'm going to make the mini-map relatively bigger in detail.

Technical problems aside, good idea.

Quote:

Quests: Going hand-in-hand with the map trace feature, is the quest aspect. I will make it so that every quest is 100% accurate, and if it's a killing or, "find it" quest, your progress will be displayed somewhere on the screen when you have your quest menu closed. It will also display rewards, specific EXP amounts, ect. "Find it" missions won't be super-impossible as well. That truly annoys me when I'm here for hours looking for one more item a monster has to drop, and the probability of it is nearly one in a million. What Celestial Destroyer did is display monsters and NPC's names in green, which were clickable! All you did was click it, and it automatically map-traced you to where the person, monster, or item was. In addition, quests will be level-specific. Quests show up as you level up, so that you won't be in over your head when you need to kill a boss and it's ten levels higher than you, when you should be doing noobie quests. It will also make it so that quests help you level up, but you're not completely reliant on them. I know a lot of games that, to level up, they rely on quests only and monsters give little EXP. That's no fun!

Yup!

Quote:

Monsters & monster drops: I want all of my monsters to be unique and spawn rather quickly.

Hah! unique...

Quote:

I know a lot of games that, when you go up in levels, they just change: "young wolf" to, "wolf", which annoys me. That isn't very original!

But practical.

Quote:

I understand that for at least 100+ levels you run out of ideas, but games do it with practically all of their monsters. I also want my monsters to look good, but not cutesy, nor too mideval-esque.

Again, easy when you get your team of all-star artists.

Quote:

Monsters can also drop really cool things, whether it be rare items, armor, a lot of gold, or health/mana potions.

Cool things tend to be less cool when they're common.

Quote:

I think that health and mana potions should be dropped every kill, because I'm tired of games over-pricing potions. This way, you won't have to spend as much money!

Gold sinks...

Quote:

In addition, I want them to give decent experience so that it doesn't take you forever to level up, but doesn't spoon-feed you, either.

Yes, grinding sucks, but if it takes you 10 days to max out your level (or at least run out of content) nobody is going to play your game for more than about 10 days.

Quote:

In-game events: GMs will always be at your disposal. At least one will, anyway.

Costly, but good to have.

Quote:

I suppose weekly there will be an event held. I'm not exactly sure what kinds, but there'll definitely be. You could get limited edition, (or rare) prizes if you win.

Puzzle Pirates has used this to great effect. Quite useful.

Quote:

NPCs: All of my NPCs will be designed, (and dressed), well.

Costly, but a team of all-star level designers can handle that no problem.

Quote:

I know a lot of games that have horrible grammar, translation issues, and/or severe typos that they don't fix, and actually think they're right!

Not a few of the games in your list are multi-ligual games; not native English anyways. Doing internationalization is not as easy as you might think, and doing thorough QA on localization processes is really not as easy as you might think.

Quote:

Town/Building design: Although I'm not completely sure of town layouts or designs, I have ideas of where some things will be placed and how things will be run. I'd like characters to actually go inside buildings to talk to NPCs, but make it big enough so it's not crowded, laggy, or makes your screen wig out. I like the concept. I also would like all NPCs to stick together. For example, Dual-wielding armor seller and skill teacher will be next to one another, and so will the rest of the different-class armor and skill teachers. They're going to be in one big group. The basic-needs NPCs, such as the black smith, merchant, auction house guy, player-run shops, and storage will be in the middle of town near convenient portals, (see next section for more on my portal ideas). This way, towns can be navigate-able. There will be one big, main, centerpiece square, however, where events will be held. During holidays, I'll also dress up the town according to what holiday it is!

Sure, whatever. Building interiors just means more models/levels/artwork.

Quote:

Marriage / lover system: I think the marriage system is pretty cool, but only if it works properly and has enough features. A lot of the time it takes an arm and a leg just to marry someone! That's not very fair. I'll probably have an NPC just for people who want to get married, and there'll be no restriction on it. I'll probably just make the couple do a few quests and then they get married. Nothing lengthy; nothing hard. Then they'll be awarded an engagement ring by the NPC, and so long as they're wearing it, they can have some relationship skills, such as randomly reviving your loved one, or healing them even if your class isn't designed for that. They can also carry and cuddle each other in public. :] How cute~

Sure. Social aspects of these sort of games tend to be underplayed.

Quote:

Flying feature: I'm going to make it so players have wings. (Kinda cliche sometimes, I know, but I think it'd be fun). You automatically get wings to equip in your inventory that can neither be trashed nor dropped, and wings will look different based on your race. I might also set up a shop that has special, different wings along with the different fashion that can go atop your armor. I'm still on the fence about it, though. Perhaps they'll be given away at events. Who knows? I'll make it so you can fly and lay upon trees, or jump on buildings, (which would be really cool for PVP by the way).

Sure, whatever. It'd be good if the game-world/story had that as a sort of theme or central artistic trend.

Quote:

There'll be no limits to what you can fly on!

Heh... except the inherent control difficulty of an extra dimension, and the difficulty in erecting non-contrived barriers to keep flying characters from exploiting or griefing some area.



Ah the end.

It is good that you've come here and posted your ideas well. You've covered a lot of the elements for what you'd like, and have a fairly good grasp on your vision.

The problem is that it seems to be done in a vacuum. No concepts of realistic practicality, business requirements, userbase interest. There's nothing tempering your personal desires and imagination to a product that could be made and effectively sold.

Worse yet, there's very little actual game design here. No numbers, no trends. No 'I'll include this to keep this other thing from getting out of control'...

I don't mean to discourage you, because all in all this is a very well laid out post and contains a number of insights that similar sort of things are just... bereft of. My replies are a bit nit-pickish and critical. They're just to get you to think about things and improve the concept. If you think I'm wrong, then go with what you think is right (and maybe do extra playtesting there).

Best of luck.

Ikatsu,

I saw your post and wanted to comment. My name's Jeromy Walsh. I'm a professional game programmer and I'm currently writing a book called Programming an MMORPG in C# with XNA.

As the MMO being implemented for the book is just an exercise for me I'm leaving the actual design of the game up to the community. As well, I'll have a developer journal so people can follow along with what I'm doing. Once it's done, I'll be releasing the source code, the assets, and the tools to the community to expand the world or implement their own.

I think it would be a great opportunity for you to express your design ideas, by helping to build out the world, etc... Right now it's a blank slate, as I've focused on implementation of the network and server code, and none on design.

So at this point there are no defined races, classes, etc...

Come visit the website and forums, register, say hello, and start some discussions on the design forums. Who knows, maybe you'll find you fit well with the team and if your ideas are integrated into the game, you'll be given full credit in the book and on the website. That's a great opportunity for someone with your interests.

Cheers!

Jeromy
Website: http://levelgrindonline.com
Design Forums: http://forums.levelgrindonline.com

There are so many things that are fundamentally wrong in MORPGs that I'm surprised no one has come up with a good design already.

The main problems are because the world is entirely static, so it's basically just content you unlock as you gain experience. This leads to grinding, to parts of games you can only access after going through lots of leveling before (raids, realm vs realm, etc.), limited durability, etc.

I believe the solution is to make the world dynamic, which can be done in various ways, and you can see everything is actually linked.
This is much more important in my opinion than just working on making races, skills and all that shit look "cool" (which is mostly an art problem anyway, not a game design one).

Here are things I think really need to be changed, and I hope you will consider some of them for your design.


- Allow players to behave just like NPCs

Allowing players to do everything NPCs can do allows the game to not be too centered on NPCs and favors player interaction.

First, an NPC and a player should be able to do the same things. If an NPC can have a shop, so should the players be able to. If players can't create things out of nowhere, so shouldn't NPCs.
Basically, that means designing the game to be realistic.

The problem is obviously that since a NPC only has a limited number of items, he cannot give it to everyone: so he'll have to resupply eventually.


- Dynamic economy

Once someone sells something, he doesn't have it anymore. Everyone has a finite amount of money. There is some supply of goods and there is some demand: this leads to trade and prices that fit the real value of objects.


- Dynamic quests

It's silly when an NPC gives the same quest to everyone, especially when it is a quest like "wolves are attacking the city, please kill 10 of them" and there are so many people doing the quest you can't even find 10 wolves, since they've all been killed.
Having dynamic quests, that are generated in function of the current situation, would be better. It's also required if the NPCs are constrained by the same rules as players: since they need to resupply, they can't give quests everytime.


- Dynamic mob population

Instead of having a static number of mobs that respawn, having a quantity of mobs that increases over time actually requires people to go and kill them to protect cities etc.
This gives a true meaning to fighting, since it becomes endlessly required to protect populations (assuming the mobs never become extinct).

The population of regular NPCs may increase just as well, albeit probably in a different manner. Level and skill of NPCs and mobs should increase over time, too, just like players.


- Player generated quests

Since there are only so many quests NPCs can make, allowing player interaction would be good.
- Players can give quests/tasks to players (with some kind of formalized advertisement system)
- Players can give quests/tasks to NPCs (like hiring an assassin to attempt to kill someone, player or NPC, for example)
- NPCs can give quests to players (classic), but also to a group of players which have to collaborate


- Permanent players

To prevent the world to become unbalanced because players, which have a certain inventory, log out and disappear from the game, you keep the players in game and allow them to be killed and looted.

Solutions, such as going to some well-protected place (guards, good locks) or renting a safe can be used to prevent that from happening too easily. One possibility is to decrease the quality of the lock over time.
This also means people will probably come play the game more often to prevent from being looted.

Allowing PvP everywhere, potentially with the guard coming in to stop the fight, is of course necessary for various reasons.


- Player housing

It's always nice in a RPG to have your own place you can build up, improve, etc.
It can also be used for storage, for sleeping, for crafting, or for security.


- Constructible world

An improvement on player housing, allow complete new cities to be built in game by players.
That way, it really feels like you're part of something and the world can accommodate for player base increase.


- Destructible world

Being able to destroy what was previously built to raid villages is interesting.
Cutting trees for wood should also remove the trees from the game, and mining an ore vein should remove part of the vein.


- Advanced crafting

Being able to make your own items is not only very interesting, it allows the game to scale better depending on the skill of the user base, favors trade, and is more natural to balance.
Also, crafting from things that can be found in the wild is the only way to create items such as weapons in a world where NPCs are constrained by the same rules as players.


- Scriptability

Some tasks, like mining, are tedious to do. So tedious many use bots in regular games.
You should thus assume everyone is using bots, or rather just provide the bot-like function directly into the game. Don't force the player to stay behind the screen and click endlessly. Allow him to say "for the next 5 hours, try to dig iron here".
That kind of thing can also be used for construction, crafting, and eventually fighting.


Several parts are easy to implement in the engine, but make the game design harder. Basically it becomes mostly about writing good AI.
Other parts, like constructibility/destructibility, are harder to do at the engine level. A powerful solution would be to go the voxel way, but good luck with that...

All in all, you end up with a game that is not unlike a strategy game, nor is it unlike real life.

I agree quite a bit with everything Telastyn said. Also I suggest that you play any games you consider cliche. I wouldn't call myself a serious gamer if I never even tried out the games. It's not a good idea to call something cliche without playing them, how else will you know what you are playing isn't cliche?

As for your ideas I wouldn't call them revolutionary as they are smaller ideas built on the pre-existing ideas of game developers to made the other MMOs. Also I find that it would be hard to implement everything you have listed for a few reasons. The main problem I think is the lack of technology that could handle your idea. As of now you would need tons of servers just to hold all the data, not to mention having these ideas would cause the computer specs to have to be really high to play the game and would cut anybody without these computers out from being able to play. If it got popular you would need even more servers and I don't even know how sending the data back and forth could even be handled with so much information needing to be taken into account.

What I'm trying to get at is that this isn't really impossibly for you. It would just be very very expensive. You would need the best programmers to somehow come up with completely new and efficient ways to send data and store it, a more efficient game engine that can handle next-gen graphics, character and level designers who would have to create thousands of monsters, npcs, buildings, etc... and somehow not have most of the money spent making it affect the price of the game to the point people couldn't pay for it.

I suggest taking things one step at a time. Here is an example.

Step one: Make a game (I suggest something simple, see how long it takes and see if you still want to keep going.)
Step two: Make another game thats a little better (maybe something more fancy, something 3d possibly.)
Step three: Try to make one of your games so it has basic multiplayer, then if you can try to add online multiplayer (keep it limited)

Keep building up and possibly making improvement on your game engine until you can make something closer to your specs. Then try making it into an MMO and try implementing smaller things you want in it. A gradual plan with shorter term goals will be less discouraging in the long run and each goal can still build on eachother.

Also saying you want to make MMORPGs only seems a little selfish. Nobody starts by making a full blown MMORPG. They are just too much to handle. It's best to try something you can handle yourself.

You seem artsy so it's probably better for you to improve your art skills and work on other peoples ideas while doing the smaller steps. Make contacts that may be interesting and more likely to help you on your goal.

I also can really judge how prepared you are art-wise by only suggesting you are a Photoshop pro rather than just an art pro. Of course I'm not the judge of that. But a link to some artwork would be nice.

I also suggest looking at a lot of this generation artwork done by professionals, and the games programmed by professionals of all genres and game types. It can be very humbling in your search for the revolutionary game you wish to build. It's much better being able to see where your going then walking in a sandstorm with the chance that you might walk off the edge of a cliff.

Good luck though. I can't wait to see what progress you output.