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Wake up call for all games designers

Started by October 27, 2008 11:54 AM
128 comments, last by Luckless 16 years, 3 months ago
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Original post by LynxJSA

Honestly, it's not some insidious plan by game companies to dictate what the world buys.


That is exactly what it is, and not only in game industry. In fact it would be quite stupid not to try to dictate consumers' interest and generate demand with so many ways of doing that today. It's not a conspiracy, it's normal.

The interest of an average consumer is being directly affected - pretty much generated - by various elements from media advertising and overall global hype to recommendations and highlight shelf placement in shops.

So your point goes both ways. The game companies make games that people tend to buy most, but most people tend to buy those exact games that are in the spotlight. It's only logical that there won't be much demand for variety and hence quality in such an environment.
Back in the times when computer where crapy, all there was to play where slow text-based games and suckish MUDs. 50 years from now people will look back on all our hard work and say the same thing about OUR! games. if you want some super cool pimped out game then get off you lazy butt and out of you mom's house and make it your self! I'm sorry but this is your wake-up call, dont dis some one elses work untill you know how much time,late-nights,and money it takes to make a game. (dont forget all that hard time) soonner or latter people will run out of ideas, then all we have to do is make those ideas better. im not trying to be mean but some times you have to in order to get your point across.
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Quote:
Original post by Z_of_Thule
Back in the times when computer where crapy, all there was to play where slow text-based games and suckish MUDs.


I think you missed the point. Also, I like quite a few MUDs and text-based games. Why do people still play Dungeons and Dragons or those 'Choose Your Own Adventure' books if they suck so bad?

EDIT: Looking at the rest of your post, you seem to be ill-informed. I thoroughly support the 'just do it' philosophy, but making a 'super cool pimped out game' is beyond the scope (or means) of most non-professionals. I'm well aware of how much hard work it takes to make a game, it's just that originals mostly aren't harder work to make than cliche games, and are, in many cases, easier. Ideas are a dime a dozen, and there's an infinite supply. Hell, 500 years ago, nobody would have even dreamt of the automobile.
Dulce non decorum est.
Quote:
Original post by Kaze
Why does everyone keep going on about games keep being dumbed down for the masses. When was this era of better more complex games, or is it just nostalgia is like a mouth full of crack infused marbles.
WINNER.

I don't feel like reading this entire topic, but considering it is full of complaints and having some heavy discussion. I'll just drop in my some amount of cents.

1. The over use of HDR. Many games, such as Fallout 3, and others, have an over use of HDR. This in my opinion removes the entire feeling that the scenes are supposed to give. It just feels fake, it looks like a failed attempt to produce an image that looks like a picture, but is not.

2. The amount of games that spawn out of nowhere and most of the time seem to be random FPS games made for the XBox or the Playstation 3 also makes me mad. I have the feeling PC gaming is dying ( And of course I can't blame them, considering all the downloading that is going on. ) But a first person shooter just doesn't play well with a controller. I prefer old school with a mouse.

3. As for the number of games that spawn out of nowhere, they also seem to have a big no good fun factor. Most of them cost in Holland that is, 60 euro. 60 Euro for lets say... a game that gives you about 7 hours of fun and then becomes a total shit if not worse. For 60 Euro I can think of a lot of better things to waste it on than 7 hours on a random game. This, also being the main reason causing the huge number of downloads I guess.

4. Due to many popular game review sites, and papers, which has been stated in one of the gamedev.net news articles. Many indie developers don't really get a chance of promoting their game, which actually has more original/fun game play than most professional games. Because they don't just focus on HDR graphics and an easy story.

There, those are my thoughts. I don't care what you do with them or what you think of it. I have already made up my mind.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pingux/ <-- you know you wanna see my 2D Engine which supports DirectX and OpenGL or insert your renderer here :)
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Original post by Daaark
Quote:
Original post by Kaze
Why does everyone keep going on about games keep being dumbed down for the masses. When was this era of better more complex games, or is it just nostalgia is like a mouth full of crack infused marbles.
WINNER.


100% AGREE.
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Quote:
Original post by QuantifyFun
Before you ask me or any other employed game designer to "break the mold", I'll ask you to lead by example and do that first.

When a game gets released and the Metacritic average is 60, go buy it, and tell all your friends its wonderful.

When the next 95+ rated game hits shelves, take the hype goggles off and explain to your friends that its fun, but not the best thing EVAR!

When announcement trailers show up on GameTrailers and there are pages and pages and pages of bastard hardcore gamers talking shit and saying things like "this game looks like crap, it's not MGS4!!!" tell them to eat a dick.

Because unless you do all of the above and more...

...games will trend based on the marketplace and there are no two ways about it. If people want sequels, we will make sequels, period. And BTW, sequels are not intrinsically bad. Fable 2 is better than Fable 1, and Fallout 3 is pretty damn amazing, Call of Duty 4 was better than Call of Duty 3, and just to throw a curve ball in there, I enjoyed GTA4 -LESS- than San Andreas, even though everybody else thought it was mindblowing.

You're she sheep. Not us. We break our brains and our backs to bring quality and innovation to the demand that -YOU - THE CONSUMERS- create. The sad truth is that you really don't want the kind of artistic expression and art that you say you do. This is why Ico sold for shit and why Shadow of the Colossus struggled as well. Oh, and don't forget the studio that Okami broke. Hell, people even pulled their eyeballs out because Zelda: Windwaker -DARED- to try something new.

So please... take your so-called wake-up call and shove it up your ass. Hardcore gamers are a bitter bunch of proper jaded morons that shit the bed any time the next game they play isn't the best game ever made. You approach every single box you open with the expectation that it will be better than the last, and you actively look for things to hate. You refuse to open your tiny little mind and simply have fun. You're basically useless.

The gaming industry is expected to grow to a $69 Billion dollar business by the year 2012. That's based on more people buying games. More people playing games. Different people with different tastes, interests, backgrounds, living in different parts of the world. People other than you. Don't fight it. Accept it. Because the more diversity we have in the business and the economic landscape, the more risks we can take, the more things we can try, the more you might actually see the kind of games you like.

But until then, -YOU- are actually part of the problem. So please. Grow up.


I have to disagree here. You are judging this person without knowing them. YOU in general is the problem but not him specifically. I think what we really mean by "dumbed down by the masses" has been mentioned in yet another trend that has been mentioned in posts I'm sure. It is this.. the gaming audience has expanded tremendously, this is both good and bad and, it is due largely in part to the increasing popularity of console gaming. People who aren't gamers are playing games. It's sort of like the movie industry, people who are not movie enthusiasts demand less from their movies but more in terms of action, violence and all the stimulators. Whereas a movie enthusiast looks to foreign and independent films for a source of more fresh, innovative, and intellectual material. The same is true for games.

Perhaps there is a connection to the dumbing down of society as a whole but is it me or are games becoming more like action movies with tired old plots and constant remake retreads. This is not to say that all games and movies are this way. However I believe it is because of the staleness of the industry that creative games will work in our favor. An original idea is really set to stand out as a gem amongst rocks for those companies that really care about quality. Back to the movie examples, take a look at the Dark Knight...it was a great film that dared to be different in so many ways and it was mainstream. Looking closer though you will see director Christopher Nolan began as an independent with films like Memento. He did not make the typical movie and what could have been seen as an enormous risk in my opinion. But people, really took notice. Here many were thinking that the masses would not appreciate something good if they saw it, even those who are satisfied with less notice when you give them MORE. It's disillusionment with the industry and the audiences that is our enemy. Game companies go for what they know will sell when crafting most of their products, it's just like pop music - mostly formula.

So it may take somebody standing outside the mainstream to create innovation. This is good news for independent game developers...as such we are poised to potentially take the industry by storm. Just as long as we hold fast commitments to quality. The difficult part here is money and resources. This is where we are now, another selling point of games is modern graphics. People love beautiful visuals, sometimes at the expense of story and gameplay, or often as seems to be the case. When was the last time you watched a non-stop action flick ridden with special effects but intellectually vacant in terms of story and character development? They make them all the time. I think many of these games are out there now but we still need to be convinced as a society that graphics don't make a game, and I think we are heading in the right direction. We can thank cell phones and handhelds for that in fact, because they force people to play games with graphics that are outdated in relation to their console counterparts. I have noticed that certain gaming companies in general are concerned with a fun gaming experience in general as opposed to just making a buck, I'm talking to you EA.

This is beginning to sound like a speech. Sorry about that fellow gamers. But in conclusion, I'd like to state than in the gaming industry there is a lot of diversity and also a lot of stagnation. But there is ample opportunity both now and in the future invigorate the industry. Some old games need to be reworked, even if they were classic. The best musicians need to "reinvent" themselves in order to continue to be successful. Madonna is a good example here, I think Spielberg is not. Most of his more memorable work is in the past, Indiana Jones, Jaws, Schindler's List, etc. Adaptation is the name of the game. Even if Deus Ex 3 turns out to be a dud. We need to stop looking to the past and moving with the tide of the future. Go out and play more games, big and small. If you don't like the direction games are heading - go out and change it. That's what I plan to do.

Quote:
Original post by LynxJSAIF the game playing consumerbase was interested in diversity of titles or a wide selection of games, then that would be of value. They are not. You need to accept that fact before you go any further. It will greatly help in your understanding of all of this. Now, do not confuse that with not wanting more new titles. Every gamer would tell you that they would like a wider selection of new titles. NEW titles. Older titles they don't care about.


I'd say there is a significant percentage of the gaming public that's interested in old games, hence game stores like Gamestop, EB Games, etc, and even places with the space to handle many games like Fry's, all carry older generation games.

And as a final thought: Virtual Console.
This isn't a fundamental flaw with the videogame industry. It's the same in all industries. People want a safe bet. Sequels cost less money and are less of a risk. Consumers would rather buy a sequel to a game they liked rather than risk spending their hard earned money on something they may or may not enjoy.

This is the same reason an artists follow up album is always more hyped than their debut, and why movie sequels are popular (and why new movies are always billed as "by the director of "INSERT HIT MOVIE"")

"Hardcore" games exist and by definition will never appeal to the mass market (meaning less marketing dollars).

Original games still exist, but for the reasons above they do not have the budget of a sure thing.

As others have said, the only true way to change any of this is to vote with your dollar. Don't buy sequels. If they aren't commericially viable VS an original game, which do you think will be made?

Isn't it possible to try to develop games that do not require a large team using high-end technology? I mean, games that cost less to develop but can still bring in plenty of money? I mean, people seem very focused on solely making multi-million dollar games. I am aware that there is a high supply for that, but we also know that there are games with quite inferior graphics and inferior technology that still sell. Not only do you have downloadable games distributed in PSN or XBox Live Arcade, but you still have the portable consoles (mobile phones, Nintendo DS, PSP) and we've seen games released on the PS2 post-PS3 launch. I personally would try to follow the business model of saving money by making really fun and really good games that would be cheaper to develop but not compete with the multi-million dollar games.

[Edited by - Metallon on November 4, 2008 8:44:52 PM]

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