All right then, Magic types, the way I understand them. Mystical Energy Magic: uses some kind of energy from another dimension, etc. Player has to use his Skill by concentrating and maybe using some gestures, sayings in order to achieve wanted effect. Most used in current games. Energy damage, summon alignment for natural damage, damage, damage, oh, yeah, and damage. Just a thought, summoning say Earth golem should involve some PSI magic to control the creature. Oh, combined magic, cool, cherry on top. Natural Ingredients Magic: uses natural components in some special combination. Caster must have knowledge and possession of the needed components and the proportions in order to achieve wanted effect. More special factors apply here, like it could be practiced only in new moon nights, etc. A.k.a. Witchcraft, Shamanism Divine Magic: this is more of a godly miracle. Certain deity uses his powers to achieve the effect the PC prayed for. You cannot “want” something from a god, you could just pray. Problem: deities would purse their own agendas, thus sometimes PC’s actions and wishes will not suit their will. Player will feel like a puppet for his patron Deity: “No, I won’t grant you bridge to that river, I want you to go back and help that old woman in the village”. Way to resolve that: when players asks for something that the Deity wouldn’t like, then just have the Deity stay idle, instead of stating his will. New problem: Player could think his patron left him if his actions are mostly in conflict with Deity’s will, forcing him to stay idle. Anyway, I’m not keen on such “godly” interpretation, as I don’t believe in any god myself. Psionics: using some kind of mental energy. Illusions, hypnosis, mind reading, mind control. That kind of stuff. Player has to have a PSI talent of some sort in order to use those powers. Intelligence often has nothing to do with the strength of the PSI powers. That’s I’ve heard about. I’d like you to submit a proposal for use of certain type of magic and how could it be implemented in interesting ways. We’ve seen the first type quite a bit in games, but that shouldn’t stop us looking for new incarnations of the old fireballs. Also we all read the wonderful game concept of Wavinator in “Magic is a Manifestation of Faith”, let’s see what others will come up with. Boby Dimitrov boby@azholding.com

That's fun, my magic system rely on the same types of magic, except it depends on the type of spellcaster/ the caster philosophy.

Druids use life energy from nature, and all beings to cast their spells, they could even deplet (read kill) the beings/plants they are absorbing life from, although they mustn't.
Their philosophical point of view is similar to the star wars jedis. (well In fact star wars jedi are similar to real druids in some respect)

Priests of Powers (gods), their philosphical point of view is the one of their god, and that a god or gods are existing.
They draw their power directly from their god, who can decide upon circumstances to give or not an asked 'miracle'.

Wizards are using power of some other planes (read dimension if you prefer), and channel this energy through their body to cast spells.
Combinations of different planes energies and mental control allow wizards to cast a variety of spells.

Psionics, draw their energy from themselves. It's mental and physical energy they are using, but only their own.
They can affect other minds because they all minds are emitting and receiving in a way. (you're free to imagine how)


All those types of magic are restricted in usage as you can see, because spellcasters need to be strong, to respect beliefs or to be faithfull in god(s).
In my world magic is rare most of the time.
(time period I've described my world upon is 12 000 years)

It's far easier to become a warrior than anything else, and it's why most people are warriors.
Training, deeper understanding and faith are improving over time, that's why spellcasters become more powerfull with time.

I think my system is good to reduce spellcasters quantity and magic in the world.

MAGICAL ITEMS ARE RARE.
And especially none spellcasters items, since spellcasters prefer to build things for themselves, or cannot do it for others.

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-


Edited by - Ingenu on June 7, 2001 8:18:29 AM

Magic is the ability/skill of channelling metaplanar energy through your head into your hands, where you can use it as you wish. Provided you dont fry your head in the process...

Ingenu, nice post! The system I describes in that post:
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=50435
that’s from an old design on mine is almost the same, which is good, really. Your concept also proves that those are the most commonly used variations of magic. More interesting will, however, be to describe the gameplay related with different types of magic, i.e. how do you make it work. Also let’s think of some new ways to “express” magic. B&W introduced the gestures concept, i.e.

And, Hase, this is just one of the types of magic we describe. You may want to read the above posts.

Boby Dimitrov
boby@azholding.com

Edited by - BobyDimitrov on June 7, 2001 9:09:51 AM

But how will all these translate into a game? It''s interesting no doubt but there''s more that is required. How is the player going to access the spells? If it is easily accessible then all these disappears. And how does the player gain new spells (in the game)? Such concepts would fare better in a story. But interesting nonetheless.

I also like the point where magical items are rare. It should be rare but should also be powerful yet subtle. Rings which emit lightning and fire would be quite frightening to wear to say in the least. And you have yet to explain how magical items work.
I would like to hear it.

Anyway, I''m working on a simple RPG where the player wields only one weapon. It is a weapon forged by dragons in the past. It came in a set of a dozen but eleven are lost and the last remains in his hands. The power of the sword would kill lesser mortals who handle it. But the player isn''t destroyed even when he is only a swordsman. The power of the sword wanes since the eleven others have been destryoed.

Thus as the player progresses (whether through level ups or no), he acquires new skills and spells and magical auras. It''s not very original but it serves it purpose of how the player gains new abilities.

Just thought that such designs are more practical for games.

Even if not very original your system is interesting especially if players actions control the 'powerup' he gains.

I've already thought of the gameplay, for wizards, I'll use B&W gesture reading, the wizard system is made of runes which combined makes a spell, so player have to try to see what comes, could be dangerous.
For ease, player will be able to precombine a limited number of runes, but this costs energy to maintain.
Spells might be available through books and scrolls.
I'd the system written down somewhere, but a windows hard disk bug made me loose all data, I think there's a beta version of the system in this forum.


I was thinking to base the druid system on plants/animals combinations, not worked on it much since wizard system wasn't finished.


Priest system combines known miracles keep secret and circumstances.
You can only ask a god a known miracle (or else your god might get angry), you need to follow your gods rules (or else you'll loose 'belief points' and won't be able to get powerfull miracles), and you need to ask your miracle in proper circumstances.
Don't ask a god of war the power to heal someone who escaped the battle ground for example.


I wasn't sure about the psionic system, since it'll require much tuning to keep balance in the game, so I didn't thought at all about game integration.

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-


Edited by - Ingenu on June 7, 2001 10:29:22 AM

How about fortune-telling, visions, looking in the future, contacting dead people, voodoo? Let’s discuss ways to implement those.

It will be interesting if the player is presented a fragment of his future, because that’ll provoke the PC to try and change it. Of course that won’t be able to happen, because (without that time travel things) what they saw was (or will be) their actual future. I.e. a fortune teller tells you will be robbed tomorrow. So the player is acting very carefully, avoiding places like the Bazaar, but finally he gets robbed by a party member or by the inn keeper’s child. You will get the feeling you cannot fool your fate, but that won’t stop you from trying every time you get a chance.



Boby Dimitrov
boby@azholding.com

Hate to break the medival magic systems here. Just wanted to say something about Psionics in a futuristic setting. Psionics are a little easier to implement in future/technological settings then other forms of supernatural powers. Since the brain is said to have brain waves. And if i remember correctly each persons brain wave pattern is different. The setting can easily include tech stuff that adjusts/enhances/intensifies brain waves. This allows telepathy/telekinesis/etc. If someone wanted to make a futuristic MMORPG the idea that everyone has telekinesis because of tech easily allows for global chat. Okay had to say this stuff sorry if it''s out of place.

BobbyD: I did, that´s just my perception of magic....

Ingenu:
Thanks Ingenu! The player does control the new abilities he gain but not through a menu where you choose the next spell or action. The players actions which determines the next spell he gets.

For exmaple, if the player plays very cautiously and kills every guard without alerting the other guards, he would most problably gain a shadow aura or a silent attack. This would be appropriate because then he will find the new abilities worthy of his style nmot like some RPGs where you would only use a quarter of the spells (most notably, Diablo 2).

Also, you seem very much inspired by B&W, you have pretty goo ideas but they aren''t easy to implement espacially in a game. And I also like the idea that you can experiment with runes to create new spells. But, I find such designs hard to implement as a programmer.

BobyDimitrov:
I''d love to see such a thing in a game but the game always never goes where the designers intend it, whether subtle or not. Players like to do everything they can and if a fortune teller tells them that they will be robbed, they would just accept it and play as normal. Well, I guess it''s due to the mentality of
''you cannot fool your fate'' in games. Most games, being linear, always give players one path and none will try going against fate. More often than not, your fate is what the game tells you.

For example, if they tell you in the game that you''re the ''chosen one'', there''s little the player can do in order to change the way things are.

However, unless you stress to the player that he must avoid being robbed, he''d probably not care at all.

TechnoHydra:
Futuristic MMORPGs? I''ve never seen one but I had been thinking about it. The fact that magic is absent from the future already makes it sound less fun. But from the point that you make, I''d think it of a different way now. Cool certainly but how rewarding (to the player) a MMORPG will determine it''s success.