Quote: Original post by Jarrod1937

Quote: Original post by blackvans1234
war -
im trying to figure out how to make straight lines, the pen tool is quite the nuisnce for me, and idk how to use just about everything on photoshop yet


i also have no idea what/where the skew tool is
lol

medevil, yea someone got mad at me cuz i posted this, in this section
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=490296

then i posed this in the beginners section to get more exposure
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=490303
(along wiht a new question)
and ppl got all mad and i guess someone gave me a bad rating

you must've done that ALOT
lol
jk

A word of warning, nothing will sink your rating more than complaining about it. Though, considering everyone starts out with 1000, and you have 998, i'd say your rating is fine. Either way, don't worry about your rating. It is simply a number, worry instead what it represents.

good point
i wasnt trying to complain (at first anyway- guess it may have turned into that)
I was just telling medevil my scenario



no feedback jarrod!?
-stink eye-




thanks Oluseyi, I am currently trying to just get the hang of the basics, like drawing and editing, all the other fancy stuff (lighting, perspective ect) will come with time, and reading many tutorials!

thanks to both

Quote: Original post by blackvans1234

Quote: Original post by blackvans1234
war -
im trying to figure out how to make straight lines, the pen tool is quite the nuisnce for me, and idk how to use just about everything on photoshop yet


i also have no idea what/where the skew tool is
lol

medevil, yea someone got mad at me cuz i posted this, in this section
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=490296

then i posed this in the beginners section to get more exposure
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=490303
(along wiht a new question)
and ppl got all mad and i guess someone gave me a bad rating

you must've done that ALOT
lol
jk

no feedback jarrod!?
-stink eye-

Sorry, but i don't consider myself a very good 2d artist to the point that i don't feel i could give good advice or feedback on your work.
But if you insist, i felt your perspectives were slightly off on your characters.

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi
@waru:
You have a good understanding of scene continuity, as evinced by your layouts. You need to work on your figure fundamentals a bit, though - anatomy in particular. Your rendering is smart, going with flat colors, but over time you'll want to add light sources, shadow and depth.

@blackvans1234:
Your work is also flat. It's a perfectly valid stylistic choice, but you'll definitely want to improve and demonstrate an understanding of volume, light and shade and perspective. You'll also want to show compositions involving multiple objects and non-blank backgrounds. Plain white backgrounds are particularly boring [smile]

Good luck, both of you, and good start!

Thanks. Other boards (non-artist targeted) were saying that there is uneven and poor continuity, actually, but I'm glad you enjoyed it.
By figure fundamentals, you mean muscle and bone structure, and lighting? Definitely working on the first two, but I think I may keep a flat, colorful aesthetic with no shading. At least, right now I don't have time for that (that's why there's none as you probably guessed), and I kinda like it.
Thanks again.

And I was wondering about that rating system, too. :)

Quote: Original post by waru
Thanks. Other boards (non-artist targeted) were saying that there is uneven and poor continuity, actually, but I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I didn't read the whole comic, as I found the sparseness of meaning tedious. Don't feel bad - I only really like two webcomics, total. What I noticed was how you understand temporal progressive art or sequential art; that's a good start. What you need to work on as a comic artist is your writing - learning to tell a story efficiently, in as few panels as possible and with an economy of words will make your comics sharper and more impactful. Don't say in six panels what you can in three.

Quote: By figure fundamentals, you mean muscle and bone structure, and lighting?

Muscles, bones, skin, hair and clothing. Light and shade are fundamentals of drawing, not of figure.

Quote: ...I think I may keep a flat, colorful aesthetic with no shading.

Don't. You're a beginner; don't fall into the conceit of thinking you've discovered a "style" - not if you want to improve as a general-purpose artist, capable of drawing anything in any style. Too many people fixate on their own style early, and get stuck making really ugly drawings for a long time (before enough people crush their souls by telling them that they suck and they finally give up). Learn the right things now, then develop your style. Bend and break the rules after you've actually learned what they are!

Quote: And I was wondering about that rating system, too. :)

People rate you up and down not necessarily for your opinions, but often for how you express or articulate them. I, for example, have an abundance of controversial opinions and impolite pronouncements, but more people on average rate me up than down. The key is to present your reasoning, and build up your arguments in such a manner that others can respect your logic, if not your conclusions.

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi

Quote: Original post by waru
Thanks. Other boards (non-artist targeted) were saying that there is uneven and poor continuity, actually, but I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I didn't read the whole comic, as I found the sparseness of meaning tedious. Don't feel bad - I only really like two webcomics, total. What I noticed was how you understand temporal progressive art or sequential art; that's a good start. What you need to work on as a comic artist is your writing - learning to tell a story efficiently, in as few panels as possible and with an economy of words will make your comics sharper and more impactful. Don't say in six panels what you can in three.

Quote: By figure fundamentals, you mean muscle and bone structure, and lighting?

Muscles, bones, skin, hair and clothing. Light and shade are fundamentals of drawing, not of figure.

Quote: ...I think I may keep a flat, colorful aesthetic with no shading.

Don't. You're a beginner; don't fall into the conceit of thinking you've discovered a "style" - not if you want to improve as a general-purpose artist, capable of drawing anything in any style. Too many people fixate on their own style early, and get stuck making really ugly drawings for a long time (before enough people crush their souls by telling them that they suck and they finally give up). Learn the right things now, then develop your style. Bend and break the rules after you've actually learned what they are!

Quote: And I was wondering about that rating system, too. :)

People rate you up and down not necessarily for your opinions, but often for how you express or articulate them. I, for example, have an abundance of controversial opinions and impolite pronouncements, but more people on average rate me up than down. The key is to present your reasoning, and build up your arguments in such a manner that others can respect your logic, if not your conclusions.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Of course I plan to work on traditional art skills, but I don't think there's any reason to force myself to include shading in the comic just for self-improvement (especially considering time constraints), or that because I'm a beginner I should make a completely conventional comic until I master the medium. As it is, it has given me a lot of opportunity to work on figures and anatomy, so I think I'll keep it that way, and leave light and shading to IRL drawings and study.

Thanks, again.

Oh, and that rating system is interesting- adds a nice element to member profiles, instead of just number of posts.

Quote: Original post by waru
Of course I plan to work on traditional art skills, but I don't think there's any reason to force myself to include shading in the comic just for self-improvement (especially considering time constraints), or that because I'm a beginner I should make a completely conventional comic until I master the medium. As it is, it has given me a lot of opportunity to work on figures and anatomy, so I think I'll keep it that way, and leave light and shading to IRL drawings and study.

Oh, no, I wasn't suggesting that you attempt to add realistic light and shade to your comic. Nearly all comics - and particularly single-artist web comics - use abstracted rendering forms for the sake of efficiency. I'm suggesting that you invest in learning the formal rules because it will make you better at all kinds of art, realistic and non-realistic. How you choose to draw the comic, or any particular piece, is - and is always - up to you.

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi

Quote: Original post by waru
Of course I plan to work on traditional art skills, but I don't think there's any reason to force myself to include shading in the comic just for self-improvement (especially considering time constraints), or that because I'm a beginner I should make a completely conventional comic until I master the medium. As it is, it has given me a lot of opportunity to work on figures and anatomy, so I think I'll keep it that way, and leave light and shading to IRL drawings and study.

Oh, no, I wasn't suggesting that you attempt to add realistic light and shade to your comic. Nearly all comics - and particularly single-artist web comics - use abstracted rendering forms for the sake of efficiency. I'm suggesting that you invest in learning the formal rules because it will make you better at all kinds of art, realistic and non-realistic. How you choose to draw the comic, or any particular piece, is - and is always - up to you.

Oh, yea. If that's what you were saying, then I'm well aware of that. :)

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi

Quote: ...I think I may keep a flat, colorful aesthetic with no shading.

Don't. You're a beginner; don't fall into the conceit of thinking you've discovered a "style" - not if you want to improve as a general-purpose artist, capable of drawing anything in any style. Too many people fixate on their own style early, and get stuck making really ugly drawings for a long time (before enough people crush their souls by telling them that they suck and they finally give up). Learn the right things now, then develop your style. Bend and break the rules after you've actually learned what they are!

I'm also interested in what you recommend for beginner comic artists when it comes to drawing practice. I too consider myself a beginner (because I'm certainly no expert), but I also tend to cartoon in certain styles mostly because they appeal to me. I know it's currently got severe limits in what I can draw, probably due to my lack of general skill. But it's still what I most enjoy drawing.

Do you recommend not getting fixated on a style at all, or is it okay to prefer a particular cartooning style as long as you put some practice into general drawing (especially life drawing, but experimenting with other cartooning forms)?

@waru: I skimmed through your comic. It looks like it's got promise, but I'd recommend the same tips as Oluseyi (also stuff I need to work on; my anatomy is terrible). You occasionally cheat on the hands, which I notice because I do the same thing ;). I'd also exaggerate the emotion and stances on your characters a bit more. With your flat shading they tend to be a bit bland by default, so I'd really push their expressions to counter that.

Quote: Original post by Trapper Zoid

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi

Quote: ...I think I may keep a flat, colorful aesthetic with no shading.

Don't. You're a beginner; don't fall into the conceit of thinking you've discovered a "style" - not if you want to improve as a general-purpose artist, capable of drawing anything in any style. Too many people fixate on their own style early, and get stuck making really ugly drawings for a long time (before enough people crush their souls by telling them that they suck and they finally give up). Learn the right things now, then develop your style. Bend and break the rules after you've actually learned what they are!

I'm also interested in what you recommend for beginner comic artists when it comes to drawing practice. I too consider myself a beginner (because I'm certainly no expert), but I also tend to cartoon in certain styles mostly because they appeal to me. I know it's currently got severe limits in what I can draw, probably due to my lack of general skill. But it's still what I most enjoy drawing.

Do you recommend not getting fixated on a style at all, or is it okay to prefer a particular cartooning style as long as you put some practice into general drawing (especially life drawing, but experimenting with other cartooning forms)?

@waru: I skimmed through your comic. It looks like it's got promise, but I'd recommend the same tips as Oluseyi (also stuff I need to work on; my anatomy is terrible). You occasionally cheat on the hands, which I notice because I do the same thing ;). I'd also exaggerate the emotion and stances on your characters a bit more. With your flat shading they tend to be a bit bland by default, so I'd really push their expressions to counter that.

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but personally, I think you should focus on what you enjoy. Studying real life tends to improve your drawing overall, but tackling problems that you encounter while cartooning will help you as much as anything else- probably more, since you'll be addressing problem areas in your preferred style/medium.

And really? I thought they were pretty exaggerated and expressive so far. Thanks for the tips, though; I definitely need to work on hands and quit skimping. ;)

Quote: Original post by Trapper Zoid
I'm also interested in what you recommend for beginner comic artists when it comes to drawing practice. I too consider myself a beginner (because I'm certainly no expert), but I also tend to cartoon in certain styles mostly because they appeal to me. I know it's currently got severe limits in what I can draw, probably due to my lack of general skill. But it's still what I most enjoy drawing.

The style of your comic is entirely up to you, but certain general drawing exercises are only going to help you improve. Most artists - regardless of whether they are caricaturists, illustrators, comic pencilers or what have you - struggle with proportion, perspective and composition the most (and after that, color). Consequently, those are the three things you should practice:

1. Proportion - not only of humans (though especially of humans), but of animals, buildings, vehicles and other inanimate objects.


2. Perspective - this Penny Arcade strip and the accompanying comments by Gabe explain everything:
   

   Quote: Excerpt:
   I also told a story during the panel about the Oblivion comic we did a few days ago. See I wanted Gabe to pass out on the couch because he was so bored. I had this vision of his head just flopping back but I could not fucking draw it. I literally spent four hours trying to make it look right and I just couldn't do it.
   ...
   I sent my concept to all these guys along with what I had and I begged for help. I got some awesome advice and Mike Wieringo actually sent me this little sketch of Gabe.
   
   His sketch was so fucking perfect and he must have just knocked it out in a couple minutes. I would have banged my head against my desk all day if it hadn't been for his drawing.
   ...
   I learned so much just from his little sketch that I couldn't help wishing there was some sort of Mike Wieringo school I could attend.

   
   Don't be that guy.


3. Composition - As a comic artist, you have multiple characters and objects in a scene. Learning to place them together logically and aesthetically is critical.

Quote: Do you recommend not getting fixated on a style at all, or is it okay to prefer a particular cartooning style as long as you put some practice into general drawing (especially life drawing, but experimenting with other cartooning forms)?

It really depends on how lofty your art aspirations are. For me, I want to have shocking range, so I try to draw in as many mediums as possible, in as many styles as possible, with a firm grounding in the fundamentals. (This coming weekend I may go to the Metropolitan museum again, to do figure drawings from sculpture. I did Hercules a few weeks ago, and even though it wasn't perfect, I learned so much from the experience - and it really impressed upon me the sheer magnitude of the big fella!)

I did the image below over the weekend (excerpt from a larger image), and I'm quite pleased with the figure, the perspective (it was a radial perspective, though you can't see it from the excerpt) and the color work. That's the payoff from continued practice.



Keep at it, and good luck!