I know when it comes to creating anything the easy answer to most questions is do it all yourself, be completely original and don't look at other material. In theory this would be great but in reality very hard, I don't think I have ever seen a completely "original" movie, idea or game. So here goes my queries, I just want to make sure I'm not pissing anyone off and that I am completely legit. I've been thumbing thru these sites and I can't figure some stuff out: http://www.uspto.gov/ http://www.copyright.gov/ These questions are for a designed Shareware game in hopes of selling for personal profit. 1. If you make a game based on an existing game, at what point could you reference the original game. It seems okay to make "Battle Chess" or "Killer Tetris. Where as "Battle Star Trek" or "The New Star Wars" would surely get you in trouble. Of course you could name the game "Frisdfkjla" but recognizing it with an existing game gives users a quick and convenient reference. Is "Fantasy Monopoly" okay? How about "Space Risk"? 2. From what I understand anyone is allowed to compose music from a dead author or one where his/her works aren't owned. For example anyone can make their version of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, then use it in a game or movie, he's long dead - no issue. But what about a dead gaming company, can we use their sound files. Seems like every fps out there has the same door opening sounds. THe makers of Titan Quest went out of business could I use their battle sounds in my game. I don't have access to a sound studio so creating good sounds is quite hard, how do you guys find souds for your games, even simple ones like a sword swing or door opening. Are you hooking a mic up to a creaky door? 3. If a company shares their source code, i.e. Freespace 2, can we use other portions of the game. Could I use their buttons or small unimportant stuff? I can design my own buttons and have but if you want to be efficient this time would be better spent on code or original game art. Do you guys create every stitch of graphical textures and images? When can you use or where do you find simple smaller stuff that you can use in your game? Thanks for any advice you have on this subject... Vanz

IANAL. If you really care you'll have to hire one.

1) Generally you cannot use the name of another game at all. For instance, the guy who originally wrote tetris has sued almost everyone that has released a falling blocks game with the name Tetris in the title (even names that sound like tetris god sued). The general deal with trademark has to do with "consumer confusion"; typically if the name makes them think of another similar item in the same market space that is regarded as trademark infringement.

2) There is generally a 14 year expiration on copyright. However, that's been muddled recently, though i don't know specifically how. For instance, Mickey Mouse's original cartoon appearance is still under copyright even though it happened 50+ years ago. If you care, then you have to always contact the original author or check with a lawyer.

3) Depends on the license under which the code was shared. Few people just release code without a license: GPL/free/restricted/etc. Read the license agreement under which it was released to see what you're allowed to do. Anything not expressly permitted you can assume is not allowed. i.e. if they don't say specifically that you can use the art then assume you cannot or consult a lawyer.

-me

Quote: but recognizing it with an existing game gives users a quick and convenient reference.

Say hello to copyright or trademark infringement. It's the "convenient" that's the problem.

Quote: Is "Fantasy Monopoly" okay? How about "Space Risk"?

Yes. You'll get sued. See past cases, those publishers are no nonsense when it comes to this.

If the name has (c) or (tm) next to it, don't touch it.

Quote: Could I use their buttons or small unimportant stuff?

There's three ways to handle such situations.
1) Hire a lawyer. Personally, per-fee, professional counsel, intellectual property specialization. Not some forum, friend, family, drinking buddy, phone hotline advice.

2) Use the art, disregarding the IP. Hey, it's likely to work. If it doesn't, you'll get sued, or simply fined. BTW: for copyright infringement of a single
mp3, MPAA charges hundreds of thousands of dollars. Just so you have an orientation of sums for "little" infringement.

3) Being unqualified to judge, being unable to get proper counsel, being unable to tackle the general IP problem - do everything yourself.

Each one of us commits at least one copyright infringement per day, some even several per hour. Most of these are covered by Fair Use. But IP law has become incredibly difficult in IT. Unless you have a license written and spelled out, granted specifically to you - don't touch. It can get really nasty.

Quote: From what I understand anyone is allowed to compose music from a dead author or one where his/her works aren't owned

Quote: There is generally a 14 year expiration on copyright.

Sorry, that's not correct as such.
In almost every country worldwide, music becomes free 100 years after the composer's death (in EU, on January 1 of the succeeding year). This was consilidated a couple of years ago (when you could have between 75 and 150 years, depending on where you lived).
Trade marks are usually valid for 10 years country-wide, and can be renewed indefinitely by the mark holder for a small fee.
Patents can be valid up to 20 years (differs by country AND date of issue) and can be renewed if an innovation is added or a different application is found (pharma industry makes extensive use of this). Some patents are not considered valid at all in some places (for example e-patents in the EU).
That's a good example why you should ask an experienced specialist lawyer, not the community on an internet forum. Nobody here (including myself) will be able to give you a fully qualified answer.

Quote: If a company shares their source code, i.e. Freespace 2

If you read their license, you will notice the statement "You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source.".
In general, availability of source code does not automatically mean "free for anything", and even if the source code is free, this does not extend to other assets, unless explicitely stated.
While you might get away with stealing someone's original work, you may as well get painfully fined for it.

Quote: Original post by rhuala
1. It seems okay to make "Battle Chess" or "Killer Tetris.

Wrong. Tetris is a registered Trademark and infringing it would almost certainly result in the owners lawyers coming after you.

Quote: Of course you could name the game "Frisdfkjla" but recognizing it with an existing game gives users a quick and convenient reference.

Exactly and that is the whole point. Names like Star Trek and Risk and Tetris are well known because the creators invested effort and money into making them and promoting them. You now want to save yourself the effort by cashing in on someone else's effort/investment for your own benefit. The law doesn't allow that.

Quote: Is "Fantasy Monopoly" okay? How about "Space Risk"?

nope.

Quote: 2. ....But what about a dead gaming company, can we use their sound files. Seems like every fps out there has the same door opening sounds. THe makers of Titan Quest went out of business could I use their battle sounds in my game.

No because:
1. The company may not have been the copyright holder.
2. The company may have been the copyright holder but the rights may have reverted to the original author when the company failed.
3. Someone may have bought the assets of the company and thus the copyright.

copyright lasts for the lifetime of the author +70 years so there isn't a single computer game where the copyright has lapsed. Some games have been placed in the public domain by the copyright holder but you would need to actually know this to be able to use them. You can't just assume that because a company is dead that the game is public domain.

Quote: I don't have access to a sound studio so creating good sounds is quite hard, how do you guys find souds for your games, even simple ones like a sword swing or door opening. Are you hooking a mic up to a creaky door?

Post a message in the help wanted forum. There are loads of budding sound designers willing to work for free/very little to get their name in the credits of a game.

"rhuala" wrote:

>In theory this would be great but in reality very hard,

"Difficulty" is not a legal defense.


>I don't think I have ever seen a completely "original" movie

It's said that there are just seven basic storylines. Does that mean that there are only seven movies? No. Learn more, then rethink.


>idea or game.

What other people have done that you perceive as reuse of someone else's ideas needs a rethink, with the help of a patient lawyer. Much you have to learn, young Jedi.


>If you make a game based on an existing game,

Which you should never do without permission...


>at what point could you reference the original game.

That's a question for the IP owner, whose IP you're using with permission. If using someone's IP without permission, it'd be unwise to shout it to the world.


>Is "Fantasy Monopoly" okay? How about "Space Risk"?

Read http://www.sloperama.com/advice/faq61.htm.

Look, this is silly. Get a lawyer. Read http://www.igda.org/columns/gamesgame/gamesgame_Nov07.php. 'Nuff said.

Quote:
Look, this is silly. Get a lawyer. Read http://www.igda.org/columns/gamesgame/gamesgame_Nov07.php. 'Nuff said.

Look, it's not silly, there is some good advice here and I have learned a few things from this. I think it's very silly to just say "go get a lawyer", especially when I'm far from a finished product. This is a forum and a good place to discuss issues like this, obviously no one is going to use this as a formal document in a court case, c'mon...

Thanks for all the rest of the responses... makes you wonder how half of the games that are made these days can even exist...

Vanz

Quote: Original post by rhuala
I think it's very silly to just say "go get a lawyer", especially when I'm far from a finished product.

Actually, when it is finished is the wrong time to get a lawyer as it is too late.

If you are considering using someone else's Intellectual Property then you need legal help now before you spend time and effort doing work that will have to be undone. If you can't afford a lawyer then you can't afford to use the IP.

Quote: makes you wonder how half of the games that are made these days can even exist...

It is simply the difference between being inspired by an idea and copying something directly. If you like Star Trek you can do a film/game/TV show about some people on a space ship traveling around having adventures... you can use the idea. What you can't do is use the actual name Star Trek or any of the other names or identifiable elements/characters from Star Trek.

Quote: Original post by Vanzthere is some good advice here and I have learned a few things from this.

Good, I'm glad. And I hope you did also read those articles.

Quote: This is a forum and a good place to discuss issues like this,

Yes, and this has been discussed here many many times in the past.

Quote: obviously no one is going to use this as a formal document in a court case, c'mon...

Somebody suggested that?? I must have missed it.

I generally try and stay away from using other people's material. Although it can be difficult. You can find royalty free images and just make sure you read the licence of anything your going to use carefully.

It seems that the name 'fantasy monopoly' would prolly cause some problems but would 'space risk'?