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Limited resources means that if you waste resources on defenses, it can't be used to then attack your opponent later.

This is true only if you build base defences. However, a good defense will require standard units too. Once you include standard units in you defensive lines, then this situation does not occur.

Also, if you can kill more enemies (per cost) than it takes to build a base defence, then you win in the balance.

For example if you had a turret that cost 90 points to build, but it could kill roughly 100 points worth of enemy units, then in balance buying the turret is a better use of your resources in a defensive battle (especially if you can back it up with a few long range units).

Yes, you can't use the cost of the turrets in an offence later, but it can destroy any incoming offence that the enemy makes against you, or if the enemy is defending it is worse for you.

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It also forces players to move out of their bases faster unless they want their resources to dry up.

I am not saying that a map can not be designed to create a situation where the encouragement is reversed. But that it favours one strategy over the other.

If the number of resource nodes (and the amount of resources they offer) is too far out of balance, between what is in your base and what is available on the map, then it can effect the balance between the types of strategy. If there is not much resource available in ytour base as compared to what is on offer outside it, then of course you will need to expand, but then it is better to expand slowly and limit it to enough resource nodes to maintain your respective levels of resources (even if you have less than your opponent still).

Even in a limited resource game, at one point a player will have to make an attack on the enemy simply because that is a necessary part of winning the game.

However, this will only occur in the later game as it can be more costly to strike for a resource node than it is to defend with the ones you already have.

Yes, once the resources have dried up, you do need to strike out. But resources drying up does not occur in the early stages of the game. It is an End game consideration (or at best a late mid game one).

So until your resource start drying up, you are nor really in the end game and can therefore afford to play defensively.

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Maps like Big Game Hunters and Fastest Possible Map are the only maps that have unlimited/nearly unlimited resources, and those are the only maps where you never have to expand.

Yes, this is because of the imbalance I mentioned. Because all the other resources are limited, it is not worth expanding into them. If all the other resources were likewise unlimited, then you would find players expanding into them rapidly.

The fact that only these 2 maps break what I have been saying and that they are specifically designed to keep the player in the base (unlimited in the base and limited elsewhere) means that it is not really worth expanding. These are the exception and have been deliberately crafted to do so.

Remember I only said "Encourage" not "Dictates". Exceptions are accepted.

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You mentioned that mining speed is dependent on the number of workers mining. That is true, but it gets to a point where the returns diminish quite quickly. In other words, 24 workers at 1 mineral node (the optimal number for a standard 8-9 mineral node) mines much slower than 24 miners split between 2 mineral nodes.

Yes. I hadn't got around to saying it, but passive and active resource also have an effect on the effective strategies.

Active resource tend to have a "diminishing returns" effect on them because you can only have a limited number of units gathering at any one time and this encourages expansion.

Expansion is different to Aggressive. Aggressive play is where you strike at locations already held by the enemy. Expansionists can do that, but they can also only go after unclaimed resource nodes.

So you can be defensive and expansionist. You would just not attack enemy held nodes, and spend more time setting up defences of your on nodes.

An Aggressive expansionists will not only claim neutral nodes, they will crush and claim enemy nodes too.

Have a look at the Necrons in DoW. They don't have much use for the Strategic points. Once they have claimed 5 points they don't need to claim any more.

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Original post by Daniel Miller I'm not sure what you are trying to say here... the map Big Game Hunters is one of the few maps that has nearly unlimited resources at the main base, so that kind of goes against what you are trying to say. On other (normal) maps, it's very, very rare to find a game where both players haven't expanded at the 10-minute mark.

My point was twofold; firstly, that either system can favour defensive play based upon map design. The problem is not how much resource can be mined from a given area of the map, but the rate is the important factor. Secondly, the SC model tends to favour a stepped expansion model (a period of time with one collection of resource nodes, then an expansion, then a period of time with two etc.) DoW tends to follow a more continuous expansion model, with smaller payoffs with each captured resource node but smaller time intervals in between. I think your post confirms this; 10 minutes would be a very long time to wait before expanding your resources beyond your initial starting base in DoW.

Another significant issue to consider is the cost of expansion. How much do I have to invest to expand my control of resource nodes vs. long term and short term payoff. If the short term cost is high and the short term payoff is relatively low, then you have another factor that will tend to encourage players to put off expansion until the long term benefit starts to become more pressing.

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You mentioned that mining speed is dependent on the number of workers mining. That is true, but it gets to a point where the returns diminish quite quickly. In other words, 24 workers at 1 mineral node (the optimal number for a standard 8-9 mineral node) mines much slower than 24 miners split between 2 mineral nodes.

This is true, but this is a very extreme example which isn't going to occur near the beginning of the game. At the start of the game, when you are attempting to balance building your economy with getting enough forces to defend your base and/or harass your opponent and teching, it will be a little while before you get enough builders relative to your starting resources to actually reach the point of diminishing returns.

With a sensibly implemented unlimited resource system such as those we've been discussing in this thread, pretty much the only way to increase your resource rates right at the start of the game is to capture more resources.

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Maps like Big Game Hunters and Fastest Possible Map are the only maps that have unlimited/nearly unlimited resources, and those are the only maps where you never have to expand.

I would agree with that sentence if it was rewritten as follows:

Maps like Big Game Hunters and Fastest Possible Map are the only maps that give you the potential for a long term, optimal resource mining rate, and these are the only maps where you never have to expand.

An interesting experiment might be to throw together a map with maxed out resource nodes (like those in BGH) but in which there are only ever one or two mineral clusters in any given expansion area. With this sort of map design you'd find that the rate of resource acquisition very quickly becomes a significant issue, and you will be forced to expand very early - well before the resources in your starting base start to thin out.

In fastest you don't have to expand, but in BGH you definitely do if its a long game. You simply can't mine fast enough with one base (especially gas, you're always coming up short on it).