Quote:Original post by teraslasch I just realized the great increase in composers flooding the forums. every post seems to be about a composer wanting to gain projects o.o . seriously i think the ratio of games : composer isnt enough for the amt of composers here , just an opinion. and almost everyone calls themselves "proffesional". sry, not being offensive, just a view.
IMO, every industry is just as crowded as it could be at this point and the numbers are still increasing. Lots of wannabes & professionals alike. I think it is good for the industry as to keep the standard and raise its level & quality. That means tight competitions in all areas. Is competition good or bad, it depends. IMO for us composers(wannabes or professionals) it is good to have this amount of people joining the forums as we could help each other out by sharing experiences & contribute to the whole gaming indistry. It might be difficult to get a game gig and so as in wallstreet. I wanna see how is it gonna be at GDC this time. Hopefully I could meet other audio people & just have fun sharing thoughts about the industry.
btw, I was at the agds & you are right not much audio people or talks about audio for games around. I think it would be a good topic to suggest to the organizer (allan) to incorporate next time.
jack ULL
ULL - an Aesir known for his beauty & skills with bows & skis
The musical landscape in general seems to be going this direction. It's got to be every second day that I here someone has taken up an instrument or started a band. And this - is good.
Despite there being a fairly large amount of arrogance in some of these "new recruits" (speaking from what I see and hear locally on the bar/corporate scene), I think that particular attitude helps out. Why? It only works to makes the gap between the truly proffessional and the "aspiring to be" much more clear.
Even though employers/live venues may have to sift through more material, they can get a better product/performance in the end. Let your work speak for itself. If you've landed the gig - at least you can feel confident you earned it in some fashion rather then getting it because you were the only applicant. :)
Quote:Original post by teraslasch I just realized the great increase in composers flooding the forums. every post seems to be about a composer wanting to gain projects o.o . seriously i think the ratio of games : composer isnt enough for the amt of composers here , just an opinion. and almost everyone calls themselves "proffesional". sry, not being offensive, just a view.
IMO, every industry is just as crowded as it could be at this point and the numbers are still increasing. Lots of wannabes & professionals alike. I think it is good for the industry as to keep the standard and raise its level & quality. That means tight competitions in all areas. Is competition good or bad, it depends. IMO for us composers(wannabes or professionals) it is good to have this amount of people joining the forums as we could help each other out by sharing experiences & contribute to the whole gaming indistry. It might be difficult to get a game gig and so as in wallstreet. I wanna see how is it gonna be at GDC this time. Hopefully I could meet other audio people & just have fun sharing thoughts about the industry.
btw, I was at the agds & you are right not much audio people or talks about audio for games around. I think it would be a good topic to suggest to the organizer (allan) to incorporate next time.
jack ULL
It will be a great year the GDC! I think that the demo CD route might not quite be as effective as it used to be :p I remember handing them out last year. They would take the CD and put it on a stack of other composers CD's.
Sean Beeson | Composer for Media
www.seanbeeson.com
I personally love seeing so many people interested and involved in the music business!! It means several things:
1) People believe they can achieve this.
Two years ago I never would have thought I'd be working full time in this industry, but through hard work, good networking and some luck, here I am. I love seeing people go out and chase their dreams. If there was a major shortage of people going out on a limb to try and make this dream happen, that could be a bad sign. Perhaps the industry is going downhill? Perhaps the hardware and software is out of the common man's reach? Perhaps the interest and allure of the business is gone. Thankfully, none of these aspects are true. Having more fish in the water shows that our business is thriving, and that is a great thing!!!
2) More people involved means more competition.
We all know having to fight for your (right to PARTY...uh hem...sorry) spot on a team will make that project mean more to you. Having more people to pick from increases the likelyhood that a team will get a good composer. This will (hopefully) raise the level of musicianship and quality of soundtracks in more games. This is a good thing! The more positive attention our field brings in- the more production and development teams will pay attention to the audio aspects of the game.
3) More networking and collaboration possibilites:
I love making music with other people and have done it several times via online. It has its struggles and obstacles to overcome, but the end product can be great. Plus, I sometimes get bored making all of the music by myself. Working with another talented composer and bring new life and ideas to the table.
As long as there are talented, hardworking people striving to bring the best to the team and game- I think it will always be a positive thing for the composition business. Even if that means I get less projects!
Raise the level of quality and interaction- and our industry will continue to grow and flourish. Bring in new ideas and new tactics. Using only the same three people doesn't promote growth.
I have to say, I disagree with some of the points raised here. The games industry is a business and like all businesses they are built around money. The more competition the lower prices will go as everyone finds it more difficult to get work. Universities are spitting out musicians, composers and music technology students at a frightening rate all desperate for work and will happily offer their services for free in some cases. And remember, with the internet and the way studios are run nowadays you are now competing globally, so you guys in America, Europe, etc... are competing against people where the cost of living is substantially lower and therefore they can charge considerably less.
It's already happening on a massive scale within the industry and WILL affect all of you at some point if you stick with games. Audio, well music, is one of the areas of game development that can happen externally, outside of the game team (although IMO it's not the BEST way to work) so we're going to see more and more work farmed out to countries like China and India where it can be done for a quarter of the cost, and they'll happily sign the rights to all of it over.
Game audio has certainly improved considerably over the recent years and that will of course continue. I'm so excited to be involved with the games industry at such a pivotal time in it's development. But I also think that it's slightly naive to think that it's only a good thing that there is an oversaturation of people willing to do the work. Everything in games is very carefully budgeted and costs have to be minimised, especially now that budgets for games are so large, the risk to publishers is immense. That, mixed with the fact that there are so many people looking for a career in game audio doesn’t fill me with great hope for these people unfortunately.
People chasing their dreams is great, I did it after all. But I've seen too many people devote their lives to things that inevitably lead to no end product because the amount of work available is so tiny yet the people scrambling for this work are so unbelievably numerous. I’m sure some of you would disagree with me, but tell that to the hundreds of people who send their showreels to my game dev every year.
Don’t get me wrong, there will always be successful composers and music studios who can charge a fortune, but i just see all these rosey comments on here and I just think about all the people that DON‘T make it. Sorry to be a downer :)
Quote:Original post by VectorWarrior I have to say, I disagree with some of the points raised here. The games industry is a business and like all businesses they are built around money. The more competition the lower prices will go as everyone finds it more difficult to get work. Universities are spitting out musicians, composers and music technology students at a frightening rate all desperate for work and will happily offer their services for free in some cases. And remember, with the internet and the way studios are run nowadays you are now competing globally, so you guys in America, Europe, etc... are competing against people where the cost of living is substantially lower and therefore they can charge considerably less.
It's already happening on a massive scale within the industry and WILL affect all of you at some point if you stick with games. Audio, well music, is one of the areas of game development that can happen externally, outside of the game team (although IMO it's not the BEST way to work) so we're going to see more and more work farmed out to countries like China and India where it can be done for a quarter of the cost, and they'll happily sign the rights to all of it over.
Game audio has certainly improved considerably over the recent years and that will of course continue. I'm so excited to be involved with the games industry at such a pivotal time in it's development. But I also think that it's slightly naive to think that it's only a good thing that there is an oversaturation of people willing to do the work. Everything in games is very carefully budgeted and costs have to be minimised, especially now that budgets for games are so large, the risk to publishers is immense. That, mixed with the fact that there are so many people looking for a career in game audio doesn’t fill me with great hope for these people unfortunately.
People chasing their dreams is great, I did it after all. But I've seen too many people devote their lives to things that inevitably lead to no end product because the amount of work available is so tiny yet the people scrambling for this work are so unbelievably numerous. I’m sure some of you would disagree with me, but tell that to the hundreds of people who send their showreels to my game dev every year.
Don’t get me wrong, there will always be successful composers and music studios who can charge a fortune, but i just see all these rosey comments on here and I just think about all the people that DON‘T make it. Sorry to be a downer :)
You speak the truth :) If only those in which parts of your post are directed would listen. It isn't like the great composers with great sounding music who bust their backs aren't getting work though. It is usually the ones that are oblivious to what they are competing against. Some composers will never been able to make a living scoring games. Some will. A large portion, like you said, are chasing a dream. In the eye of the beholder, self cannot really be filed as such the person.
Sean Beeson | Composer for Media
www.seanbeeson.com
Quote:Original post by Sean R Beeson I think that the demo CD route might not quite be as effective as it used to be :p I remember handing them out last year. They would take the CD and put it on a stack of other composers CD's.
Thats why you need to do something to set yourself apart...like run up on the stage during introductions...naked.
I do agree with what you are saying and realize that its going to get worse before it gets better. However, the people that are already 'In' have little to worry about and will probably be little affected by this surge in 'professional composers'. I can guarantee someone that the guys who are already doing okay, will continue to do so...The current way of things just makes it more difficult to get to that point.
I was discussing this issue at work today, and the general consensus is that games will go the way of film, tv and advertising where each project will have a number of composers 'pitching' for it (for free). Only one of them will get the job and all the others will have wasted their time... although the pay the 'winner' gets is high in proportion the amount of hours worked. This is already happening now. The scarey part is where the company with the project will already HAVE a track they want to use but they'll hand it out to composers just on the off chance that one of them will come up with something better... because it doesn't cost them anything. Which is shocking treatment, but does happen :( When working up against this, even if you do get the occasional job, the money you make will have to soak up all the wasted time/work you do... although i guess you can reuse stuff so it's not all bad.
To continue my horrendous downer ;) I doubt it'll get much better in the future... look at the decline of professional studios. Ten, twenty, thirty years ago there were thousands of professional studios, once everyone started getting personal studios, computers with software and doing it at home they started dying off and it's never got better. Of course there are many of the super studios left, but a lot of people lost their livelyhoods and the ones that remain have to find alternative ways of making money (such as game audio!). Now, anyone with a standard PC and a cracked version of some audio software can make pretty much anything and THAT is the reason for the increase in composers i think, it's no longer out of the reach of the average guy on the street. Once people get interested in computer music the universities will then happily tutor them in a course...
I really think i'm risking becoming the grumpy old bastard on here, but lets just say i'm playing devil's advocate for the sake of balancing the discussion :D
I was asked to demo for a game by a large developer. I declined after discovering that nearly 30 other composers were all demoing. Cattle calls are dangerous. Most of the time they aren't looking for the best composer, they are simply looking for a composer who has already written "their piece".
Sean Beeson | Composer for Media
www.seanbeeson.com
