What came first? Chicken or Egg? ----- hopefully you all understand that...

Lets see...

Youre all wrong!!!

RPG =! Game;
RPG = Rocket Propelled Grenade <--THIS IS NOT A TOY!!!

LOL j/k
RPGs are 100% games.

MadKeith, about the rpg''s not having a victory condition. Well I only read the first page of replies, but I just wanted to say surviving is a victory condition in two ways( sort of ). First of surviving life day to day, battle to battle, is a list of small victories in the middle of the game. Dying of natural causes is the Victory that ends the game, and makes us start another. At least that is the pen and paper rpg game that I play.

"Practice means good, Perfect Practice means Perfect"

Domini had a point about the pointlessness of defining this, as words will always mean different things to different people. We might want to define words so that everyone instantly knows what we mean, but remember that words are abstractions of reality. You could come up with a million words for RPGs based on level of interaction, plot, etc. but there will always be something that doesn''t fit any of the words.

On the topic of classifying gamers, I think you still have left me many types out. I''ve watched my little brother play games, and I''m convinced he doesn''t really care what he is playing. As long as it allows him to see some sort of activity and keeps him busy, he plays it. I could give him a stick to throw in the air, and he''d probably stay with it for a while.

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Omnipotent_Q
"Natural Gas! It gives you... ideas!"

The Product itself is a toy (something you play with). But when you use/play it... it becomes a game(an entertaining activity). Isn''t the ultimate "goal" of a toy to entertain you? Movies share the same goal... but that does not make them toys. The difference is interactivity.(yeah.. DUH I know)

Toy == A physical object intended for entertainment.
Game == an activity that requires interaction with a toy to produce entertainment.

A rock could be a toy if so inclined, and a game could be throwing the rock.

The universe is the toy... life is the game.

but only if you wish to be entertained

to those of you who think pen and paper RPGs have victory conditions: you''re wrong. Break out your player''s handbook or equivilent and get a quote to prove me wrong. On the other hand individual battles within an RPG can be games. It depends on how willing the DM is to kill you. If the DM sets up an encounter and for the duration of the battle tries his best to kill you, then that battle is a game. Otherwise it isn''t, but it is often close to being a game since you are encouraged to use strategy.

quote: Original post by Luna Zerana

A dog has two legs. A cow has two legs. So, is a dog a cow? You got a head. A worm has got a head too. So, you are a worm

I hate to be a bitch but I was under the impression that dogs and cows have four legs... :D

And hey, does SimCity or other Sim games have a clearer goal than RPG''s have?