Quote: Original post by RAZORUNREAL

EDIT: Oh, and as for this:

Quote:
Original post by jackULL
Adding to nsmadsen challenges, try driving a vehicle, walking in a street or any daily activity with ear plugs or headphones. See how it affects your activity...

People do that the whole time! I thought someone into music would have an ipod... Sure, it affects you. But shut your eyes and see how you do.

Let's not get side track on the original subject that I posted initially. Otherwise it is really irrelevant to post an argument that doesn't make sense. Or create your own topic in the right section which you can argue with these irrelevant subject.

Keep in mind I posted this in the "MUSIC & SOUND" section with this subject:

" How Important is Music or Sound? "

I'm just trying to tell Anonymous that he doesn't have to criticized people's opinion, which he acknowledges...

J

Well hopefully I don't think my post was more sidetrackery. Just trying to bring some levity to the argument as a whole.

You can try to turn the music off when playing games, or just replace the score with something else and see if your experience changes, but one of the best ways is to get an honest response to music.

How do you get an honest response? Try children!

I have a 3 year old girl. She watches movies and games with me. I started paying attention to how she reacts to things on screen. Games with dynamic soundtracks illustrate this clearly, but she will change her opinion of any given situation based on what the music is playing. If I'm encountering a swarm of enemies, the music changes to fast paced battle and she gets tense and starts to fidget. Sometimes the music will change to fast paced tension because an enemy is just nearby without even appearing yet but she gives the same reaction. After a battle when the music transitions to normal she will loosen up and be more communicative. When I find a secret or am rewarded with something, a musical fanfare of sorts will play that encourages her to say "Yay!" or "You did it daddy!". When the music goes more ambient...creepy choirs, shrill violin solos... she freezes up. If I ask her if she's scared she says, "yes, I'm scared daddy."

My point is, whatever is going on visually is secondary to how she reacts to the music. She isn't trained in music (none of us are to begin with), it's just an honest response. It's how we as humans respond to music, and it doesn't take an ounce of musical training or understanding to experience it. It blindlessly pulls and tugs our heartstrings with disregard to what's going on in our minds, in fact sometimes it deceives and betrays our minds outright (intentional or not). And that's what truly gives it it's power.

Enjoy!

Tony

Interactive Arts go hand in glove with music. Surely you can separate them, but the question is why?

Music and sound can make or break a game. Think of really old games. Sonic the Hedgehog, do gamers remember how the trees were drawn? Do they remember what color eyes Sonic has? If you play some of the music from Sonic, they will remember it. Music has the ability to withstand time as well. Music, when written correctly, can almost become timeless.

My honest opinion is this. We live in a disposable society. People LOVE to be bombarded with everything right now, as fast as possible, and then throw it away. Having a very well written and strongly committed soundtrack for a game is very important. I state this on the grounds that most gamers have healthy and unhealthy addictions to playing games, and a lot of those gamers, as Tony said, respond so strong to the music and the sound. For example, if you haven't seen Video Games Live, check it out, it is worth the ticket price! :) They sell out their concerts, however, the Symphony Orchestras in Ohio do not, they have to give tickets away. The audience at VGL is full of fans ranging from 15-80, CSO, mostly 60+. (When I go to the concerts, I am usually one of the youngest.)

One could argue the global importance of music and sound, but I feel that videogame music and sound is incredibly important to this decade. People want to listen to it, they want to experience something with the music. When one of the horn players played the horn melody from the Medal of Honor theme incorrectly, a few in the audience booed.

Music and sound are like oxygen, you couldn't even possibly know how important they are until there is none. (Although a stretch :p)

Sean

Quote: Music and sound can make or break a game. Think of really old games. Sonic the Hedgehog, do gamers remember how the trees were drawn? Do they remember what color eyes Sonic has? If you play some of the music from Sonic, they will remember it. Music has the ability to withstand time as well. Music, when written correctly, can almost become timeless.

I hate to keep arguing, but that is simly a horrible argument.

Take a few games with great sound design: XCOM, Fallout, Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy 2, Zelda etc.

I can remember both the graphics and the sound for all these games. As for playing some music for them, isn't that like showing them Sonic Graphics and asking where they are from? You need to use LIKE cases.

Asking someone to reconstruct graphics from memory IS NOT THE SAME as asking them ot identify a piece of music you supply. I would say images can be just as "timeless" as music. SMell and auditory inputs can be very powerful and bring back strong memories of a thing. But it is in main remarkable, because it is unexpected, everyone knows images bring back powerful memories...

As a small example I can certainly remember what England looked like, I have no recollection at all of what it sounded like.

To stress again I am not saying music cannot be timeless or important blah blah blah, but graphics are AT LEAST as important, and probably more important since they convey 90% of the inromation the player receives.

Quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster

To stress again I am not saying music cannot be timeless or important blah blah blah, but graphics are AT LEAST as important, and probably more important since they convey 90% of the inromation the player receives.

How many people you know play Final Fantasy IV or VI for the graphics? I mean, when a majority of people know the mario theme 15 years after playing the game or are reminded or an entire fictional universe when hearing say the 'chocobo' theme or the 'imperial march' from 'Star Wars' it lends itself to the idea that melody is the most paleteable thing to the human ear AND the human memory. Whether or not you are willing to recognize it, music DOES make or break a game. In most cases graphics are merely a tool used to allow the player to enter the game playing world and where the music can be looked upon as something far more incidental. However good music has a tendency to engrain itself upon the mind of the player/listener far more readily. I am willing to make the claim that a good melody has the potential to stay in the mind of the gameplayer far longer than any sprite or visual effect.

Also, it is useless to bring up the quality of olfactory input in gaming for your argument because its non-existent in game development, at least at this point.

[Edited by - Rain 7 on November 26, 2006 2:06:56 AM]

I don't think alot of the public actually puts a whole lot of stock in audio for games. Maybe some of the music may catch their ear but for the most part, for the general public, they're too busy with the graphics, gameplay, bugs, patches and all that. If the sound really sucks then you'll certainly hear about it but it is certainly down the list on whats important in a game for most.

I think the ones who really take notice are the guys making the sounds...lol.

I think it's pretty obvious the role audio plays. Everyone has already said some of the most important reasons so I won't waste time echoing the statements.

Good thread tho.

In my opinion it's wrong to say that it's the music that makes a game. As wrong as to say good graphics makes a good game. As wrong as a good gameplay makes a good game.

It's the mix of all important components that makes a good game. A game is a multimedial thing. When the gameplay is good, the graphics are good, sound fx and the music is good, when everything at this game is good and fits together in a way that you forget everything around, then you will remember the music.

Everything has to fit together. And with that i don't mean that every component has to be highes possible quality. It just has to look and feel like it was made for each other. Super Mario still makes fun, doesn't it?

One not fitting component, be it music, sound fx, graphics, etc., can decrease the whole gamefun. Even a single sound FX can be such a troublemaker. And then the whole game is not this good. Because then you remember this incredible not fitting EEEEK sound instead the good gameplay. No matter if it contains an oscar winning song as background music but has weak gameplay. As no matter if it has sucking music but high quality professional graphics.

Music, at least to me, is incredibly important for games. Most of my favorite games of all time have had excellent music (Most of the FFs, Chrono Trigger, etc). Sound effects really add to the immersion as well.

All I know is that I wouldn't play a game if it didn't have any music, it'd be way too boring. Music describes the scene just as much as the graphics to do, IMO.

First of all people should take note that:


Music and sound are as important as the designers make them.


As I mentioned earlier it has incredible potential to carry information to the player--this goes beyond the emotional impact music and sound can offer that I think is NOT in dispute in this thread.


I remember the first game I played that required COLOR. Up until then game designers had not made COLOR an important part of the gameplay. The game was Bart simpson vs. The Space Mutants. In the game anyone wearing purple was a space mutant, but on my 9" mitsubishi black and white ANYONE could be a space mutant. Ultimately the game became nearly impossible to play on a black and white television and I had to petition the use of the family TV.


My point is that game designers are not ALLOWING music and sound to be important elements to gameplay.

Imagine a game with 3D positional audio that has a sound cue you have to track down in order to "find" some significant element to the game. Well there you go, in that case it has become as important as any other element to the game.


I understand the argument for a distilled look at game design and its significance in the minds of gamers--but graphics and sound are just mediums of information and they CAN BE as important as the designers make them.


Which, tragically, is not yet.

Very good point. I love bringing up Metronome in these kind of discussions. I don't think the game will ever get finished beyond Prototype according their lead, but it's still a cool step forward.

Metronome

Actually, looking at the site it may get a next gen revival after all (there used to be more info but it now says under construction which I actually take as a good sign!)

Basically the premise was you go around this huge city recording sounds in order to solve puzzles or accomplish goals. You would actually record the output of the game (in game of course.) They had an example of one gameplay idea in which you needed to scare away someone or something from guarding something (sorry, a bit vague here). So one way was to record someone else screaming. In order to get them to scream you needed to surprise them. So you set up your recorder, knock over a bookshelf and record their scream. Then take the scream and play it back to the guard.

Something like that. I hope they do in fact finish it.

Tony