I think it is terrible for a composer to do that. I guess the companies didn't mind- but my point is that is your sole job: produce music for games. If I'm working several projects that are the same genre- I try my hardest to make each track distinct and individual to each game. Infact- I try to do that on every project I'm on...so I don't duplicate myself. I know that to a certain extent we all have our own "sound" or method...but a good composer in this industry should try and avoid stamping things out that sound exactly the same.

I'm actually speaking out of turn though- because I haven't played any of those games and haven't heard the music. But if it is the same- and especially if he is resorting to using loops commonly in his scores...well the guy sounds like a hack to me. I might (key word might) use a loop for a drum pattern...but even then it is a last resort and I try to avoid it at all costs. I'd rather write all of my material.

Just my 43 cents worth.

:)

Oblivion and Baldurs Gate most certainly do not have the same music! Perhaps you could argue they are similar, in a few places, but I think that would be like complaining that the Star Wars theme is the same as the Superman theme (not that it stopped others suggesting that).

As for sequels, I think it's almost mandatory to repeat some of the musical tracks or at least leitmotifs from the earlier games, to evoke some of the atmosphere and link them as a series.

Like I said in my post- I haven't heard the music or played the games...so I was just reacting to what others had posted. But I had never heard about the Superman and Star Wars themes being compared to each other. Wow... that is a stretch. Musically, they are very different but have that John Williams sound.

If these people were comparing sequels to each other- then I agree with Kylotan. Sequels have always had carry over...which helps them have continuity. Some old- some new. This happens not just with the music but with the plot, game design and artwork.

Maybe I should go rent-buy these games and try them out.

Quote:

Original post by Kylotan Oblivion and Baldurs Gate most certainly do not have the same music! Perhaps you could argue they are similar, in a few places, but I think that would be like complaining that the Star Wars theme is the same as the Superman theme (not that it stopped others suggesting that). As for sequels, I think it's almost mandatory to repeat some of the musical tracks or at least leitmotifs from the earlier games, to evoke some of the atmosphere and link them as a series.

I haven't heard the music from Baldur's Gate. Did Soule write it? He has a lot of great music from other games too, however I am sure that none of us can really gauge what producers ask of him. Perhaps they pay him for that sound, and he has to deliver it. It is different in every game, just the same mood.

Which I agree, also to note, is great. He is also a superb orchestrator.

I'm not really saying they have the exact same sounding music, just that to to my untrained ears they sound similar enough. But I guess it does make sense seeings as they are set in kind of similar worlds, but it would be nice too see someone have a different take on the genre.

Just to mention a few positive games for music, MDK on the playstation one had music which went above and beyond what game music generally was. Japanese RPGS usually pay alot of attention to the music Dragon Quest 8 for one. With these its like you get a whole package when they have really good music, you have a distinct sound which you can associate with it, which brings you more into the game.

Dragon Quest 8 does have good music- the only problem is it doesn't have enough of it. I've put in nearly 50 hours of the game and am at the very end and have only heard a handful of tunes.

I think the problem is they used the Tokyo Symphony- which sound great. When using professional players they usually have to pay union fees (at least in the US they do). This could have bumped up the music budget in addition to the sound design and the compositions themselves.

I also felt that some of the locations didn't match the location. I also grew tired of hearing the same music over and over again. My wife has even commented on this.

A good example of plenty (and I mean plenty!!!) of music for each location is Chrono Cross. This soundtrack took up three CDs- a TON of music.

Quote:

Original post by nsmadsen I think the problem is they used the Tokyo Symphony- which sound great. When using professional players they usually have to pay union fees (at least in the US they do).

If by "union fees" you mean additional payments or royalties, then your assumption is incorrect. This is a common misconception about how USA union recordings work. Under the current American Federation of Musicians (AFM) videogame agreement, there are no residual or "back-end" payments tied to the number of copies manufactured or sold.

From the AFM's summary of the agreement...

According to the current provisions, each video game project is scored based a onetime agreement that states there will be no obligations for further payments based on game sales.

Furthermore, the Mult-Platform agreement allows for the music to be re-used on sequels, expansions, etc, with no further payments.

Again, from the AFM's summary...

Multi-Platform:
Music recorded under the multi-platform rate may be used in sequels of the same
specific franchise/series without additional payment. Additionally, music may be
used without additional payment on repackaged, re-released or bundled version of
original product and/or expansion packs, add-ons, patches, updates.

There are "new use" fees if a CD of the music is made, music is used in some other non-game format, or the music is used in a completely different game.

Professional musicians are used on most commercial videogame titles. Even the scores that are recorded "non-union" in Seattle, London, Eastern Europe use professional musicians. Some of them are just members of a different union (not the AFM).

If by "union fees" you mean they have to pay professional musicians professional wages, well, of course. What else would you expect? A multi-million dollar budget that hires a bunch of college kids to create the music? No CEO worth his salt is going to let that happen. [wink]

I was referring to union pay as in the hourly rate they charge during the actual rehearsal-recording sessions. Not royalties or anything like that. I know that Dragon Quest 8 had a huge budget, but am confused as to why there is less music than other games in this catergory. Many games have used high end samples and such on much of the in game music and save the "live" recordings for the really cool cinema intros and such. Dragon Quest 8 differs from this and uses the live symphony continuously. Since you have to pay a whole heck of a lot more to record a full symphony (all of the players, recording techs, producers, conductor) this might be one reason why there is less music in this game. Or...maybe the game developers just chose this...I don't know.

I guarantee that the average gamer gives sound/music very little attention (mostly because they're used to the audio is 9/10 titles being mediocre and underdone), but when a title really goes out of it's way to make the sound or music presentation the best it can be, the resulting transformation it does the game experience is simply crushing.

I think games like Thief 2, Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee/Exoddus, and others that utilize the power of audio prove that it can change a game experience even more than graphics can, by captivating and enslaving the imagination. While visuals are very important, here you have games like Thief that look like crap, and yet are still some of the powerful and moving games to play, simply because of what the sound does to you.

To answer the original post, I think Music and Sound is exactly as important as graphics, but more or less so depending on the game. :)