Game Vs Film Rant
I'm starting a weekly rant on music4games.net, of which I run the forums BTW. The purpose is to start a dialog, not to inflame. I'll try and take hold of some misconceptions and myths, shake them around and see who I hit. Sometimes I'll just take a position and personally not even agree with it. This is more of an exercise in thought provocation. The first one I'll post here, after this you can only read them at M4G! Gilm? Fame? Man am I sick of game scores sounding just like film scores. Ok, actually I'm sick of people getting excited from the fact that game scores can sometimes sound like film scores. Everytime someone hires an orchestra and gives their best John Williams impersonation all the mainstream game news write an article. Here's my impression of that article: __________________________ "VIDEO GAME MUSIC GROWS UP" by Slappy McFatpants Gone are the bleeps and bloops of yesteryear's game music. Today's video game soundtracks are decidedly more sophisticated than what we've been hearing in the past few years. No longer tied to small file sizes, sometimes the soundtrack comes on it's own disc which can be listened to offline in the real world like a real CD. As games emulate the movie industry more and more it's no wonder that not only are game scores sounding just as great as traditional Hollywood scores, but they are attracting traditional Hollywood composers. "I've never played much games myself but my agent says these are the next best thing so..." "I've only recently picked up a Nintendo X-Station, but the music I've heard was actually pretty good, so I had to try my hand at it. Plus, my kids are big fans of Zippo the Flammable Dolphin games so I couldn't lose!" Along with bringing in big name composers from the film world, and the rising popularity and plummeting costs of running a home studio, an amateur composer can only spend a few thousand on machines and high end sample libraries to follow in the footsteps of their favorite film score composer. "I like what I hear from the new recruits" says film composer turned game composer Birken Stock. "It's a rennaisaince of interest in the film score, which is what game scores basically are but more interactive." It's about time people started noticing the sophistication of the modern game score. They are even known to hire an entire orchestra just for one game! They didn't do that for Donkey Kong! As games look more and more like Hollywood blockbusters, it only makes sense that the soundtracks that accompany them do the same. Welcome Video Game Music, you've come of age! __________________________ Yech. Plech! Flop-flip baggypoo sumpa sumpa boot! If I hear the phrase "bleeps and bloops of yesteryear" one more time I'm going to shove a Triscuit in my eye. Hey mainstream game article sites! You're not doing us any favors by linking us to film scores repeatedly. They just don't understand. Do they have a choice? What are we putting out currently? What do games by themselves often aspire to? There's also a big difference between scoring for larger collective audiences (film) versus a single person's perspective (games) but most aspiring composers don't really think about that. As long as it sounds cinematic it ought to translate, right? We buy the biggest orchestral sample libraries, set up a spiffy website with samples and pictures and rake in the Williams/Goldsmith/Zimmer sound-alike accolades. It's like we're not even trying! I know we have to start somewhere and ultimately all music is derivative, but don't you think it's getting time to evolve or at least start thinking in that direction? WE GET TO CHOOSE!!! Stop studying film composers and start studying game composers, but really just play more games! The best way to evoke solitude in film music may not be the best way for game music. Having a huge orchestral score may work well in epic strategy games, but should they also be as prevalent in squad based first person shooters? Why straddle both sides you composers out there? Why write for both film and games? I'm not saying you have to choose but I can't tell the difference between either of your offerings in their respective categories. Shouldn't I? Aren't they different enough? Don't you care?!? END RANT HERE
haha I enjoyed this post very much this was my favorite...
ahhh the multitalents of a triscuit. Anyways this raises an interesting question for me since my musical aspirations are to compose for films and video games. The way I see it (though I havent put much thought into until now) is lets say you buy a cd by an artist you hear on the radio...this CD is intended to be listened to without any other form of media incorperated. Game and film music both ARE intended to be "packaged" with visual media. this general fact connects them to a degree but only in the same way a country artist is related to a metal band. The method of consumption is the same but the audience is different. For games and films the audience changes when the game and film changes. Each movie and game are like different music genres. The purpose of both film and game music is to aid in "setting the scene" to help the player or watcher get wrapped up into the environment.
Therefore I think they can sound the same, if you score a dark piece for a film to make the watcher feel uneasy couldnt the same "uneasy" feeling be useful to a game of similar environment?
Quote:
Original post by anthemaudio
If I hear the phrase "bleeps and bloops of yesteryear" one more time I'm going to shove a Triscuit in my eye.
ahhh the multitalents of a triscuit. Anyways this raises an interesting question for me since my musical aspirations are to compose for films and video games. The way I see it (though I havent put much thought into until now) is lets say you buy a cd by an artist you hear on the radio...this CD is intended to be listened to without any other form of media incorperated. Game and film music both ARE intended to be "packaged" with visual media. this general fact connects them to a degree but only in the same way a country artist is related to a metal band. The method of consumption is the same but the audience is different. For games and films the audience changes when the game and film changes. Each movie and game are like different music genres. The purpose of both film and game music is to aid in "setting the scene" to help the player or watcher get wrapped up into the environment.
Therefore I think they can sound the same, if you score a dark piece for a film to make the watcher feel uneasy couldnt the same "uneasy" feeling be useful to a game of similar environment?
Jim Welch
WelchCompositions
WelchCompositions
Your Slappy McFatpants article neatly summed up everything I hate about uninformed reporting! [grin]
I don't mind game scores sounding just like film scores when it's appropriate. There are other times when the music from The Dig or the bleeps and bloops of yesteryear (I just gagged while typing that phrase) or the mainstream pop music of the Burnout series are exactly and precisely the best choice of music for the game.
Graphic design, webpages, art, music, gameplay, GUIs, and anything else you can think of are best when they convey exactly what they're supposed to, evoke the emotions or feelings they're supposed to, and fit in perfectly with everything else. It takes serious talent, skill, and experience to find and implement all pieces of a game (or film, novel, play, etc) that well, but that's what we should always shoot for - appropriateness!
I don't mind game scores sounding just like film scores when it's appropriate. There are other times when the music from The Dig or the bleeps and bloops of yesteryear (I just gagged while typing that phrase) or the mainstream pop music of the Burnout series are exactly and precisely the best choice of music for the game.
Graphic design, webpages, art, music, gameplay, GUIs, and anything else you can think of are best when they convey exactly what they're supposed to, evoke the emotions or feelings they're supposed to, and fit in perfectly with everything else. It takes serious talent, skill, and experience to find and implement all pieces of a game (or film, novel, play, etc) that well, but that's what we should always shoot for - appropriateness!
gsgraham.comSo, no, zebras are not causing hurricanes.
Appropriate is a great term. Racing games for instance almost cry out to have licensed tracks. Know why? Because don't we as drivers like to have our own music playing while driving? So I think it's awesome that things like EA Trax exist that do acquire licensed music for their games to be used WHEN APPROPRIATE. (Though I'll use a custom playlist over most of those bands anyway.)
That's a good example of dual use music that can exist on several platforms.
Tony
That's a good example of dual use music that can exist on several platforms.
Tony
Not only is the music becoming cinematic, but nearly all aspects of it are. There is one thing that I have found that most film composers cannot do as well as people that write a lot of music for games. That is create a damn good ambient track. A game really only contains how much thematic material? And how much of that can be huge and epic? Loook at WoW. That's a LOT of music, and a lot of that music is ambient. The themes are developed a little differently in films than in games.
Sean Beeson
Sean Beeson
Sean Beeson | Composer for Media
www.seanbeeson.com
www.seanbeeson.com
You do realize the music for the Dig was actually Wanger right? So, actually that music wasn't written for the game what-so-ever. I think that music is just old enough to be free domain, and maybe they thought they could save money and add a unique layer by having music done by a famous classical composer.
Who knows!?
Tony- first off- the article was very, very funny!!! Thanks! I agree with you on the sense that the formal reports are that video games have suddenly grown up! Its like we were all 3- walked into a different room and when we come back five minutes later- we're 30!! GASP!!! They've grown up! The problem is so many in the mainstream, that haven't paid attention to this industry, feel like that is what's happened. True, we started off with one ball floating around and two paddles hitting it. True, we had annoying beeps and bloops for our music. This was all due to the technology. I feel like the mainstream media took that image of the video game industry (back in 1972...or when ever) and stamped that on the entire industry well into the 90s. Then all of the sudden they started to notice...wow the graphics are actually looking pretty good. Oh my gosh!!! There's blood and sexual innuendo in here! Listen to the music- where did the bleeps and bloops go?!?! Now they are looking at this industry again closer- and they've missed out on our teenage years and are seeing an industry that has grown in nearly every aspect. Wait...every aspect- from the content of our games, to the way our games are set up and played, to the music and the visuals.
Second point is, if you can listen past the bleeps and bloops, there were some very nice musical pieces happening (esp. on the Nintendo). The best help I've found to promote this earlier music are the remixes and the classical concerts featuring this music. Many people like this music because it reminds them of their childhood- but many other people are drawn in by what they hear. You can see it on their faces upon a first listening..."This is for a video game?!" So many times people just heard the inferior technology and associated the entire package as inferior.
I do however disagree with you about video games solely trying to be like the film industry. I think it works both ways. Films are trying to be more like video games. For example- think about all of the flashy CGI moments in movies. One of the best examples that come to mind is Fight Club. Great movie. The first rule of fight club is...oh sorry. It had many moments (like Jack's apt blowing up) that look really cool. Films didn't do this in the 70s for two reasons. One- lack of technology and two- the need for it wasn't there. Old movies just told the story. Sure, they'd try and get it some flair- but I feel like all of the movies now-a-days feel like they have to include this entire flashy media or the public feels like the movie is cheap. Music is the same example. Not only has video game music changed over time- film music has as well! Listen to the movie music from 1930s. You never hear that style now- unless it’s for satire or effect.
I think both films and video games are trying to take the best of each other and lift the art form up. While I agree, the film score sound has to be appropriate- I don't think it’s a totally bad thing. Plus, I really like your last point: choose for yourself. We have power to write any style of music for the game...as long as the production manager approves it. (This can easily segway into the problem of the production manager only wanting style X and you want style C).
Great article- thanks for sharing.
Who knows!?
Tony- first off- the article was very, very funny!!! Thanks! I agree with you on the sense that the formal reports are that video games have suddenly grown up! Its like we were all 3- walked into a different room and when we come back five minutes later- we're 30!! GASP!!! They've grown up! The problem is so many in the mainstream, that haven't paid attention to this industry, feel like that is what's happened. True, we started off with one ball floating around and two paddles hitting it. True, we had annoying beeps and bloops for our music. This was all due to the technology. I feel like the mainstream media took that image of the video game industry (back in 1972...or when ever) and stamped that on the entire industry well into the 90s. Then all of the sudden they started to notice...wow the graphics are actually looking pretty good. Oh my gosh!!! There's blood and sexual innuendo in here! Listen to the music- where did the bleeps and bloops go?!?! Now they are looking at this industry again closer- and they've missed out on our teenage years and are seeing an industry that has grown in nearly every aspect. Wait...every aspect- from the content of our games, to the way our games are set up and played, to the music and the visuals.
Second point is, if you can listen past the bleeps and bloops, there were some very nice musical pieces happening (esp. on the Nintendo). The best help I've found to promote this earlier music are the remixes and the classical concerts featuring this music. Many people like this music because it reminds them of their childhood- but many other people are drawn in by what they hear. You can see it on their faces upon a first listening..."This is for a video game?!" So many times people just heard the inferior technology and associated the entire package as inferior.
I do however disagree with you about video games solely trying to be like the film industry. I think it works both ways. Films are trying to be more like video games. For example- think about all of the flashy CGI moments in movies. One of the best examples that come to mind is Fight Club. Great movie. The first rule of fight club is...oh sorry. It had many moments (like Jack's apt blowing up) that look really cool. Films didn't do this in the 70s for two reasons. One- lack of technology and two- the need for it wasn't there. Old movies just told the story. Sure, they'd try and get it some flair- but I feel like all of the movies now-a-days feel like they have to include this entire flashy media or the public feels like the movie is cheap. Music is the same example. Not only has video game music changed over time- film music has as well! Listen to the movie music from 1930s. You never hear that style now- unless it’s for satire or effect.
I think both films and video games are trying to take the best of each other and lift the art form up. While I agree, the film score sound has to be appropriate- I don't think it’s a totally bad thing. Plus, I really like your last point: choose for yourself. We have power to write any style of music for the game...as long as the production manager approves it. (This can easily segway into the problem of the production manager only wanting style X and you want style C).
Great article- thanks for sharing.
Nathan Madsen
Nate (AT) MadsenStudios (DOT) Com
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios
Austin, TX
Quote:
Original post by nsmadsen
You do realize the music for the Dig was actually Wanger right?
You mean Kip Wanger? ;)
Quote:
The best help I've found to promote this earlier music are the remixes and the classical concerts featuring this music. Many people like this music because it reminds them of their childhood- but many other people are drawn in by what they hear. You can see it on their faces upon a first listening..."This is for a video game?!"
Very very good point. And a good supporting argument for this is Video Games Live. What Jack and Tommy are doing is a bit over the top, but they are promoting game music from all genres and periods by primarily using an orchestral presentation.
And we certainly don't want to burn any bridges with the film industry, we should be partners, but we should also explore and celebrate our differences. I'm just afraid of game music becoming too safe or predictable. Commercialization is already under way and threatening to take away a lot of opportunities for up and comers unless they start to write what will sell, instead of what's in their heart.
Tony
I am most put off by the conventional notion that sophistication in video game music is only subject to the nuances of an orchestra. The "Bleeps and Bloops" of past generations of video game music are some of the most beautiful...I really despise people that judge a piece of music without realizing the limitations the artist had to go through in order to create it. I also resent how people hear orchestral music and automatically assume it is going to be more sophisticated (and therefore somehow better) than "bleeps and bloops". The only "Bleeps and Bloops" I see are the people who have their head too far up their ass to realize good music when it hits them right in the shnoz.
Rain 7- I agree with you...although I'm going to be more diplomatic about it. Your point was one of my main points in my post. Stravinsky (for those that don't know- he was a super influencial composer in the early 1900) liked to compose music with limitations. For example he wouldn't allow himself to use a certain tonality or restrict himself in some other way. He claimed that it allowed him to over come the challenge and create a better piece. If he allowed himself to do whatever he wanted- he didn't feel like the results were as good.
The composers of the early video game industry had limitations placed on their music as well...although not by choice. They had to over come the technology's short falls. Many of them did this in really creative ways. For example- the NES could only play four channels of sound at once (one of those was exclusive to various sounds of static). That leaves basically three harmonic channels and then one channel for static sounds...which usually because the drum track. I'm not sure who did this first- but composers started using arpeggios at a super high speed on one track. The result was a chord being played while only taking up one track.
That's a great idea and allowed the game to have two melodic tracks, one harmony track and a drum track.
Another point I didn't bring up before is many games have music that is interactive. Think of SSX Tricky. I loved how the music would change if you went off the beaten track, or parts of the songs would drop out while the player is falling through the air and pick back up right when he lands. Sure, film scores can be interactive like that- but its all prescripted. I think this technique is more effective in games b/c the music responds to what YOU are doing instead of Tom Cruise on the screen. Tom is crazy by the way. :)
The composers of the early video game industry had limitations placed on their music as well...although not by choice. They had to over come the technology's short falls. Many of them did this in really creative ways. For example- the NES could only play four channels of sound at once (one of those was exclusive to various sounds of static). That leaves basically three harmonic channels and then one channel for static sounds...which usually because the drum track. I'm not sure who did this first- but composers started using arpeggios at a super high speed on one track. The result was a chord being played while only taking up one track.
That's a great idea and allowed the game to have two melodic tracks, one harmony track and a drum track.
Another point I didn't bring up before is many games have music that is interactive. Think of SSX Tricky. I loved how the music would change if you went off the beaten track, or parts of the songs would drop out while the player is falling through the air and pick back up right when he lands. Sure, film scores can be interactive like that- but its all prescripted. I think this technique is more effective in games b/c the music responds to what YOU are doing instead of Tom Cruise on the screen. Tom is crazy by the way. :)
Nathan Madsen
Nate (AT) MadsenStudios (DOT) Com
Composer-Sound Designer
Madsen Studios
Austin, TX
Quote:
Original post by anthemaudio
Ok, actually I'm sick of people getting excited from the fact that game scores can sometimes sound like film scores.
I'm getting sick of every time someone tries to make any aspect of games more like films. There are so many major differences between them that it's a major mistake for try and force one to become the other. Sadly I see a lot of people who are familiar with film, expecting games to be interactive films and applauding any move in that direction.
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