Before the title of this thread scares you, no, I am not going to ask which is the best program overall, but I am going to seek opinions as to which one might better serve my specific needs. I know both are fantastic, feature rich programs, but my problem is that given the high cost ($4,000 - $5,000), I am understandably not willing to buy both: I must choose one or the other. My overall goal/project is to design and implement a game engine, probably focusing exclusively on Direct3D (as opposed to OpenGL). (Yes, I know this will limit me to the Windows platform, but that's not the point of this post.) I see myself needing one of these two programs mainly for creating meshes and even entire scenes as it will probably be a long while until I can design and implement my own ad hoc level editor. Also, rudimentary modeling, skinning, and animation is definitely going to be needed (by me) at some point I'm sure. So here's the thing. I already have a little experience with Maya (version 5), and the latest version seems even better. I have been testing out the trial version of 3DS Max, and between the two, I really like working with Maya a lot more for purely superficial reasons: I like its UI better. It just seems sleeker and more polished whereas 3DS Max appears very kludgy, clunky, crowded, and poorly thrown together. My stumbling block is that Maya seems to be very poorly supported in the game development field. It doesn't work well with DirectX (i.e., exporting to DirectX), 99% of all tutorials and books are centered around 3ds, etc., etc. So given this, and given that my main use (as far as my currently limited knowledge can predict) for this type of program is to create complex meshes and scenes (i.e., model my 3D world), would I be better off going with 3ds Max even though I hate the user interface? And along these lines, is all this perhaps overkill? I know Milkshape 3D is a good (free) program for character modeling, but I don't know of any free or cheap "level and/or mesh" editors. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or opinions!

3DS or Maya will both be overkill. Most cheaper programs have most of the functionality they do. The real benefit of either of them come with support and plugins/scripting. Yes, they're very powerful, but you'll only be using a fraction of that power. I would suggest Blender, Milkshape, maybe some others (there are definately articles and stickies about 3d packages).

If you DO choose between Maya and 3DS, based soley on what you've said, DEFINATELY go with 3ds. I am an advanced Maya user, and an intermediate Max user, and as far as creating art goes, I find Maya far more intuitive and easier. But in Max you have Biped for animating, but even more importantly, the aforementioned D3D functionality. Once you learn the Max interface, you'll like it. If it truly was clunky and crappy, would it really be a popular 3D app? Its just a matter of learning the UI 'philosophy.' Maya's is easier to understand, but that doesn't mean its better.

Don't forget that creating assets is possible in any program you choose, and that the asset-creation functionality is a far second to API support/functionality of the said application because you are concerned primarily with programming. You will find competent artists no matter what tool you choose.

Perhaps you are right. I should probably check out Blender before I invest so much money in a product I may barely use. Though I may desperately want to be, I am by no means artistic. That's why I have settled on trying to master the mechanics (the game engine) rather than producing the art (the actual game).

But even to build and test my own engine, I'll still need to create assets to test it with, hence why I need the external tools. I have the money to spare, but I am not such a fool to throw it away on a whim. [grin] On the other hand, I'm looking to switch careers, so I am willing to invest the money if need be.

I still have a couple of more weeks left in my 3ds trial period, so I'll keep tinkering with it and see if perhaps it will start to grow on me.

Thanks for your input!

xsi?maya?3dsmax?


use the one you know the best maya has an api and mel script which can export your models to a fileformat if you have to you can export to simple xml and have programmer create a compiler for it.

I like xsi but i use 3ds max it easy once you start using it. it kinda reminds me of autocad

Honestly, as long as you're willing to learn a new program, Blender really might be good for you. It is fairly powerful, and entirely free - the main complaint is the interface - so, if you have access to free (you know, work or school) Maya or Max, they're the better bet, but if you have to buy one... Blender!

Anyhow, it's worth a try.

You have several things to consider but fortunately many of the people here already addressed most of the issues. It seems that if you are working on a personal project where you expect that most of the artwork will be completed by yourself that using Maya or Max may not necessarily be the best approach for creating content. It'd be worth your time to learn a cheaper modeling application such as Blender.

But... Here's the catch; If you plan on making this a larger project, which will require additional outside artists to assist with content creation and animation then purchasing and learning Maya or Max may be in your best interest since there already exists a large artist base that is familiar with both of these applications. Additionally, there is more documentation and forum support in the industry for Max and Maya then some of the lesser known and used applications. I personally think that choosing between Max and Maya is purely a matter of preference for the artist, but the game engine implementation is a significant factor as well.

Myself, I use both at work. I've used Max for 8 years and Maya for 5 years. In general, I prefer Maya because it has an extremely powerful, efficient, and customizeable workflow, but Max is powerful as well and for D3D probably has better built-in support. Currently, I'm working on the art for 7 high profile next-gen games that are going to be released for the PC, XBox 360, and PS3. Having exposure to a large range of projects allows me to see how Max, Maya, and each game's engine work for different production approaches. Even though 4 of the 7 games that I'm working on use the Unreal 3 Engine they all utilize it differently and importing assets into it requires the same amount of effort from either Max or Maya. In fact where I work, for projects that use the Unreal 3 Engine half the artists will work in Max and the other half will work in Maya because in the end all the content is exported as an ASE file, imported into Unreal, and saved as a UPK file. Once we have the end product there's no way of knowing whether it was generated in Max or Maya.

As you already know, it's simply a matter of knowing what your needs are and what applications will best serve you. In your case it seems like Max will serve you best if you do decide to expand your art team because it has much better support and documentation for D3D. However, if you plan on doing several complex and unique non-biped character animation then Maya may be a better choice since it has more versatile and advanced rigging and animation features. Biped on the other hand is ideal if you have several characters that are going to be re-using the same animation sequences.

Thank you for the very insightful reply!

As a brief background, my "project" is strictly for self-educational and self-promoting purposes only. There will never be anyone working on it other than myself. [smile]

To sum up what I mentioned in some of the above posts, I am looking to make a career change, or at least change its current focus anyway. I have always had a passion for computer graphics (CG), and in particular for games: the virtual worlds created within them have always excited me. Put another way, the art of digital creation has always filled me with wonder and awe, and I want to be a part of that.

But alas, with my current skill set, I would never be able to get my foot in the door. (I have three degrees [Computer Science & Engineering, Electrical Engineering, and Math], and at first I worked in the field of telephony, but then for the last seven years I have been working in voice recognition, something I really haven't enjoyed I am afraid to say.)

Now, as I mentioned above, I have already conceded to myself that I have little true artistic talent. I have a great imagination, but when trying to apply that to an actual canvas of some sort, I always fall short. [headshake] What I can excel at, though, is implementing the tools that other true artists can utilize.

Unfortunately, when I initially scanned through various game programming job listings, without exception, they have always required that the applicant have prior experience on at at least two to three released games. [tears]

So my plan is to spend the next year or two developing a basic game engine (nothing revolutionary mind you!) along with an SDK for it providing, at minimum, a scripting engine and a map editor. My hope is that with these in hand, I'll have a better chance of getting my foot in the door. I'm not looking to start at the top mind you, but without some kind of portfolio, I wouldn't even be able to start out at the bottom!

Before looking into Max or Maya definately look at Softimage XSI which is a lot less (Foundation is around $500 I believe) and they are a lot more supportive of developers and game development in general.

I looked at their website, but their tools seem to be specifically geared toward character creation and animation. I am looking for software to help mainly with polygon and mesh modeling, i.e., building a virtual 3D world, but not necessarily its inhabitants. [smile]

Am I missing something?

Perhaps I haven't been looking at the right site? (http://www.softimage.com)

Building characters and building the world require essentially the same thing. Animation can be a little different, but any major modelling program (especially Max, Maya, XSI) can do anything perfectly for your needs.

Check on Wikipedia for what game studios use XSI, I know Valve is amongst them. If really all you need to do is get an established modelling program, and learn the API so you can write a toolset, then IMO XSI is your best bet... its respected, somewhat widely used, and much cheaper.