Just would like to hear some ideas on how a character can advance/develop differently than just a level system. Where a "level 1 character" is so much lower than a "level 10 character". I personally think its time to think outside the box of levels. Though it is a great term to use when defining advancement points, I think its time to look beyond that. Now there are games that have tried different systems. So far the most successful that I have seen is eve online. Star wars galaxys tried a system that I thougth was amazingly different and nice (( before they changed it this is referring to before combat revamp for those that know)). But just things like that. So what are some ideas that any of you have come up with?

this is actually mostly a "problem" in RPGs - i have not seen it anywhere else. i can't really think of anything else, besides advancing stats (willpower, strength, toughness etc) individually.

In many games nowadays you just level individual stats, the character doesn't have a "level."

Valid points. But I have seen it used on many games beyond just Role playing games. Though usually the game does retain a form of Role playing within them.

Example: Gunz

In this game it is more or less a 3rd person Massive Muti player shooter. Where the entire purpose is to destroy other players. As you gain more points/experience you level up. Allowing you to access better weapons and other accessories available for a character.

Though it is important to show a player when they have advanced within a game. I just think the term "level" has been overused and used as a way to get out of any dynamic advancement.

I understand not all games use this system or this terminology but a lot of them do.

My question though is. What are some ideas on ways to advance a player beyond just using a level based system. Though fundamentally to pass from point A to point C you need to pass through point B. What are some ways that could change how a player defines his own advancement?

There are plenty of examples of RPGs that don't have levels (the original Star Wars Galaxies, for example), but I think players tend to prefer some sort of indicator of their advancement, especially in multiplayer games. I think the real problem is that a numeric indicator doesn't fit into the game very well. The solution is to come up with a non-numeric indicator that has enough precision and is easy to compare, or come up with a game where a numeric level does fit into the game.

My idea is to have an RPG where your level is your age, and your character's attributes (primarily appearance) change as your level/age increases.

Tiers :p

On that note: Of Massive Multiplayer Rpgs

I am a promoter that people you don't want knowing how advanced you are don't get to see how far along you are. Example : Lineage 2 The only way you could even get close to estimating how high some one's level, was through the type of armor they wore. Even then it was deceiving because lower levels could wear the high end and vice verse if they wanted too. So it would keep you guessing. It pains me when someone can walk up to me and then know exactly where I stand. Think in terms of if you saw someone in the street. Unless you have mental powers or the person is wearing a black belt around there waist, you would not know how far along someone is in martial arts or if that person even knew martial arts for that matter.

One idea I have had for a replacement for level is to have all characters start off with identical (or near identical - allowing for initial customization) stats. Instead of ginaing higher stats, the player instead has a chance to modifiy the stats. They can do this by lowering some and then raising others. The maximum you could raise a stat is dependant on the experience the character has gained.

So you start out with a generalist characre and develop it into a specialist. This gives character growth and because as the character gains more experience they can be better at their specialization, so you have power level too.

The resoning behind this is that as a character trains in one specialization they must neglect their training in other areas. Also the exchange of stat level need not be a 1 to 1. You might have it a 2 to 1, a 1 to 2 or even dynamically based on the current leve3l (ie the lower the level the more points you have to add and the higher the level the more points it takes to increase it), or any other system you can think of.

Well it's an interesting subject. In FPS games such as Battlefield 2, you advance in ranks such as corporal, lieutenant, general so on. It is similar to the generic "Level 1, Level 2" but more detailed. A military game simply must have some sort of rank system, and instead of having cheap Levels, Titles are actually awarded.

Ranks define a person's skill (basically). Therefore, there must be some indicator of skill level. Classic games use "Level 1" dexterity (ex. Diablo). Modern RPG games use "Mage" "War Hero" what not. (I don't play World of Warcraft, but I believe they use some sort of system like that). Modern FPS games, as I mentioned, use ranks such as "Corporal" "Private" etc.

There is always something like that. It's just they way its displayed that changes over time. It's been suggested in these forums to use "Tiers." It would be same as "Levels" or ranks, but just a different name thats displayed. Honestly, I think it would be better for a game to have upgrades as game time progresses. For example, in Battle 1, the player picks up a battle axe. In Battle 2, the player finds a cape. So on so forth; just like Diablo, except without the Level requirements. MMORPGs use this sometimes.

New ideas? Quite difficult. How about...
As a character is developed and gains experience, he is moved up the chain of command. A servant becomes a soldier, who becomes a warlord, who becomes a general so on. I'm currently developing a game that follows a similar strategy, but I'd rather not reveal too much ;).

The most interesting thing about this "outside of the box" experiment is the totall lack of any sound "outside of the box" solution. Levels make sense, and numbers are not only what machines understand best, but they are almost always the underlying influence in real world performance. You run faster because your leg muscles can twitch in x amount of seconds with x amount of force over x amount of distance. Numbers are in everything.

Furthermore, if you cannot define it in numbers then it most likely is not computable and thus cannot be created in software. Although content may be a way around that, I do not see how that could connect to character development.