Hey, I'm not sure if i posted in the correct forum (maybe this should be Game Programming, but its AI related so...) I've been interested in Game Programming and AI (both academic and game) for quite a while now, and recently i've begun to combine the two - its been fascinating, i started out using an FSM for a Fighting game and have begun to develop a system in the hopes of having my fighters _learn_ tactics based on their opponent's styles. *fingers crossed* The distinction I make between Academic and Game AI is: Academic is studying the theory in attempts to model intelligence that exists in animals, humans etc whereas Game AI is coding game entities to give the illusion that they are "smart" - FSMs, scripted sequences and so forth. I've been doing self study on using ANNs (and have begun reinforcement learning) in attempts to make my game characters "smarter", while i know that Game AI and Academic AI are not exactly the same thing, i reckon that with the increasing techonological advances the two will meet somewhere. I was originally aiming to get a developer job in the games industry but i've been wondering how people become AI Programmers - do you need academic experience, i.e. a MSc or a PhD? As I have been looking at doing a MSc in AI. I've seen a few AI Programmer jobs that say Academic qualifications required and others that make no mention of academics. I'd be grateful for any information from anyone currently working in the industry or working towards a similar goal as me? Would a MSc in Games Programming provide me with enough experience or would a more AI specific MSc be a better choice? (i have a degree in Software Engineering) thank you

Quote: Original post by cossie
The distinction I make between Academic and Game AI is:

Academic is studying the theory in attempts to model intelligence that exists in animals, humans etc whereas Game AI is coding game entities to give the illusion that they are "smart" - FSMs, scripted sequences and so forth.

...
while i know that Game AI and Academic AI are not exactly the same thing, i reckon that with the increasing techonological advances the two will meet somewhere.

Fair enough, but in the real world there isn't necessarily this distinction. Often the same techniques are used, but there may be differences in what sort of results are required. And not all games require the illusion of humanlike behaviour - think about abstract strategy or puzzle games, for instance.

Quote: I was originally aiming to get a developer job in the games industry but i've been wondering how people become AI Programmers - do you need academic experience, i.e. a MSc or a PhD? As I have been looking at doing a MSc in AI.

To be employed as an AI programmer, you apply for a job and show them that you can do AI.

Quote: I've seen a few AI Programmer jobs that say Academic qualifications required and others that make no mention of academics.

Exactly. There is no fixed route. You just have to show them that you're capable of doing whatever they require. And that will vary from one company to the next.

Quote: Would a MSc in Games Programming provide me with enough experience or would a more AI specific MSc be a better choice? (i have a degree in Software Engineering)

Probably neither of these would be a substitute for getting some decent game AI demos under your belt. The portfolio is paramount if you are aiming at a niche like this.

It's been my experience that AI programming with most dev studios is done by the person with the most experience. If you're talking about well established developers, they hire AI programmers who have experience doing it, but if you aren't limiting yourself to well established developers, more often than not, they're happy to find anyone *willing* to do it. Not everybody enjoys the AI side of game development as we do, and surprisingly, a lot of programmers shy away from it, beyond simple movement of in-game objects, because it's a field of study that isn't necessarily as conducive to self-study and self-development as other aspects of game design.

Could you recreate Bresenham's line and circle algorithms entirely on your own? Sure, most experienced programmers have at one point or another, without even knowing it was an already established algorithm. Could you write your own A* path-finding algorithm? Some have; it's not the highest on the algorithmic difficulty list. Could you come up with the concept of a neural network on your own? I know I did, but it wasn't until I did formal reading on the subject of AI programming that I finally understood implementation details.

What's great about the video game industry is that even after a solid 20 years of maturing, all it takes to get your foot in the door is being able to demonstrate talent and follow-through. If you show a potential employer a learning NN implementation, that's as good as any degree in CompSci to a dev studio in need of an AI coder.

Thank you both for your replies (but don't let that stop other people from replying! :-)

I figured that experience is the deciding factor at the end of the day, i thought an MSc in an AI related field would be a good advantage as i would have the change to work on something for my thesis that would be useful in the gaming world, or atleast i think it would be useful.

Quote: "Probably neither of these would be a substitute for getting some decent game AI demos under your belt. The portfolio is paramount if you are aiming at a niche like this."

I'm constantly building up my portfolio, infact it is probably a time line for my experience and knowledge with AI techniques!

thanks again

I think you should take a course on human psychology.
You also need to be quite competent at mathematics.

-Zubair-

Quote: Original post by databandit
I think you should take a course on human psychology.
You also need to be quite competent at mathematics.

-Zubair-

Funny you should mention that!

i did originally consider taking Cognitive Science which is the study of how your brain works and using a computer to model it, or parts of it atleast. I've read/ am reading the odd book or two on psychology, i also watch a lot of horror movies too ;)

Maths won't be a problem.