I have always been a fan of Magic: The gathering the card game, and got into the novels. In the RPG I am developing solo, I am using a Magic System derived from the Magic card game and novels that I think is far more intuitive, reasonable, and ''gosh darn feels right''able than anything else I have encountered in CRPGs here is what I have come up with so far in my Design Doc. I know its amateurish but thats what I am: In most games, magic is based upon a point system, or a system that allows you to use a fixed ammount of spells at on time based on your level before having to ''recharge''. These systems are flawed, and prove a problem for any game that largely magically inclined. The system this game will use will be far more complex and better realized. It is based on how you would imagine magic would work. Spells use up mana, a energy force that is produced by the lands upon which we live. Mana is divided into 5 colors: White(plains/order, healing, holiness), Blue(islands/mind, control, water), Green(forests/life, nature, creatures), Red(mountains/destruction, chaos), Black(swamps/death & decay, evil). These colors form the base of all spells, and are the energy on which they feed and are composed of. In order to cast spells the caster must be able to draw upon this mana, in sufficient quantities. And yet, the caster must also be able to moderate the mana, for if the caster calls upon too much mana or forgets to use some of it, it will burn him. The player does not, however, have to deal with such trivialities. Mana pooling is directly related to expierence. A spell-caster must also be able to remember all of his spells. This is directly related to wisdom, and since human wisdom is limited, the player has several ways to help him remember his spells. One is a spell book which allows the player to study his spells durring times of innaction. Another is a satchel of enchanted tokens which are in some way linked to the spell needed. Another is enchanting a item of clothing so that a certain portion, perhaps a pattern/patch/picture, can be mentally linked to the desired spell. All spell-casters must deal with fatigue in that each spell taxes the players stamina/energy depending on the complexity of the spell''s ritual and or the ammount of energy it pulls from the caster. All of these contribute to spell-casting in the game, as well as (indirectly) the rate at which the spell-caster can draw, or pool, upon the mana. The strength of the spell is directly related to the expierence of the caster, and the ammount of mana pumped into it by the caster. The maximum ammount of mana that can be pumped into a spell is determined by the casters expierence. If a 1st level mage casts a fireball, he will either encounter mana burn or will only create a flame the size of a head, depending on his Wisdom. Countering a spell is not controlled by the caster, but rather it is determined by the intelligence of the caster, as well as his expierence and (indirectly) wisdom. Counterspells are just like normal spells as far as casting costs (fatigue, mana) but differentiate in that they are not intended to cause damage, but rather to counter, or negate, a spells effects. Through this system there is no foreseeable limit on the ammount of spells a mage can cast, once he attains higher levels of wisdom and expierence. It also allows theoretically unlimited growth as a spellcaster. As a mage becomes more advanced, the ammount that spells tax him is reduced significantly, and his mana pooling rate increases. The casting time for all spells remains the same through all levels, as the real time is spent in pooling mana. Failure in casting depends upon fatigue and wisdom, as well as expierence. Spells will have a permanent effect on the environment. Cast a spell that creates a fissure and the fissure will still be there a week later (this depends on the efforts by the city watch to repair the damages to the city). Cast a fireball that ricochets into adjacent buildings and watch as the flames spread and buildings burn and collapse. Summon a giant spider and watch as it kicks over market stalls. What do you guys think? If you have any questions or comments please let me know. Thanks! BTW I have been trying to figure out this system for well over 10 months... I have no life Brent Robinson "Ich bin deinem Vatter!"

The Magic: The Gathering game system is copyrighted, you''re not allowed to use the terms and concepts of that game.


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
Mad Keith the V.

im not sure if the digital version works the same way as the cards but to tell you the truth... It was a neat idea, for the game and making it into an rpg system would not work too well in my mind. you gotta figure, there owuld only be so much mana available in the land before you kill it.

I am not text, I am not organized pixels, I am not killed by turning off your monitor, I am not isolated by turning off your computer. I just am.

Conshape Electronic Arts

MadKeithV: I realize that, and will most certainly remove all terms and concepts copyrighted by Wizards of the Coast and/or its parent Company/s. I am simply using the card games magical terms as a reference because they are most commonly associated with all things magical in my mind. I appologize for any misleadings... This is merely public content right now anyways and I will most likely prove inept and not even finish the game. Thanks for taking notice, though.

Other than the Copyright stuff, what do you think of my system? Have you seen anything like it? Does it make sense?

Thanks!


Brent Robinson
"Ich bin deinem Vatter!"

It looks like an ok system on paper. But you have to make sure that all these rules are known to the user. Otherwise it may appear random to them whether they get burned by excess mana or when their mana pooling ability suddenly increases. In that case you might as well be rolling a dice.

ro

Coconut:
I''ve been thinking a lot about magic-systems in CRPGs lately,
but have not yet found a system that will both be easy and intuitive to use (play) and at the same time powerful enough to allow the players to ''invent'' their own spells. Since I''ve never played Magic: The gathering(tm), my own thoughts have been inspired by how the channeling works in Robert Jordan''s WOT(tm)-series, but they seem to be similar enough. Increasing power with experience is one thing, but how will the combining of the colors work? For instance if you mix, say, red and blue, will that mean 50% of each or could you mix different amounts of different colors to get different spells? The first case limits the amount of spells to something like 5! (=125), the second is probably impossible to implement...:-)

Hope I make sense here :-)

/Andreas

Fantasy Edge: The idea of mana comming from land will be removed from the game as it just doesn''t work into anything workable in a game. I think I will use the idea that mana comes from the existance of life. That way there will be no problems concerning ownership of ''lands'' and allows the design to focus on the skill of the mana pooling.

rowbot: I don''t think there would be any more randomness than what is considered normal with combat/magic systems in the industry today. Spells are guaranteed to hit if they are not countered, if they do not fail in casting. Of course there will be some randomness such as when the game must determine whether the spell was correctly cast, and other normal determination algorathims. Also, this system would allow almost unlimited growth of the expierence of the player if I can allow the player to create their own spells...

amag: I am not quite sure how I will allow the player to research and develop new kinkds of spells, but I think that would involve changing the nature of the elements of magic. As of right now, however, I am drawing a blank as to how this would be done using different elemtents/colors of magic only. Do you have any ideas on how to make this work? I think that I would have to add several more elements/colors to the design to be able to allow the user to create their own spells and enchantments...

Sorry if any of these were not mentioned in the Design Doc.

Brent Robinson
"Ich bin deinem Vatter!"

Coconut, to be brutally honest, even taking away the copyrighted information, none of it looks very original or different.

"One is a spell book which allows the player to study his spells durring times of innaction."

AD+D.

"Another is a satchel of enchanted tokens which are in some way linked to the spell needed. Another is enchanting a item of clothing so that a certain portion, perhaps a pattern/patch/picture, can be mentally linked to the desired spell."

Spell books, just not called spell books. Perhaps with a random chance of failing to remember the spell (as is common in many systems.)

"All spell-casters must deal with fatigue in that each spell taxes the players stamina/energy depending on the complexity of the spell''s ritual and or the ammount of energy it pulls from the caster."

The Fighting Fantasy spell-casting system had a single "stamina" stat which basically represented both Health and Mana.

"The strength of the spell is directly related to the expierence of the caster, and the ammount of mana pumped into it by the caster."

Sounds just like some of the AD+D spells that do "d8 per level" damage, or whatever. I don''t know if AD+D allows you to spend extra mana for extra effect, but Warhammer did. As does my system.

"If a 1st level mage casts a fireball, he will either encounter mana burn or will only create a flame the size of a head, depending on his Wisdom."

Sounds like a simple failure test, as done in many spell systems...

"Countering a spell is not controlled by the caster, but rather it is determined by the intelligence of the caster, as well as his expierence and (indirectly) wisdom."

So, you have a chance of countering a spell, based on a couple of stats. Again, this is nothing new.

"It also allows theoretically unlimited growth as a spellcaster. As a mage becomes more advanced, the ammount that spells tax him is reduced significantly, and his mana pooling rate increases."

This is the nearest thing to ''original'' that I''ve seen so far. But I thought of it quite a while ago - believe me or not - and I expect that, in turn, I''d seen it elsewhere first.

Perhaps you should try researching more tabletop RPGs, rather than computer RPGs, as computer RPGs with magic systems seem to be always based on Dungeons and Dragons. It is good to learn about other kinds of game in order to broaden one''s design horizons

Try something like :

Spells are recorded as tattoos on the caster's body. This marks him as a mage, for better or worse.

Spells are a combination of a) the five elements, b) the four cardinal directions, c) the 12 astrological signs (and some spells don't work at certain times of the year), or d) the 8 colours of the ChaoSphere*

Just a nudge...

*

                          OCTARINE,                          PURE MAGIC          RED,                                BLACK,          WAR MAGIC          ¦¦¦¦             DEATH MAGIC                             ¦¦¦¦             ¦¦¦             ¦¦¦¦             ¦¦¦                ¦¦¦        ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦        ¦¦¦                   ¦¦¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦  ¦¦¦                      ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦                     ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦ ORANGE,   ________¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦________ BLUE, THINKING  ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ WEALTH MAGIC MAGIC               ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦                      ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦                   ¦¦¦  ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦  ¦¦¦                ¦¦¦        ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦        ¦¦¦             ¦¦¦             ¦¦¦¦             ¦¦¦                             ¦¦¦¦          PURPLE or          ¦¦¦¦             GREEN,          SILVER,                             LOVE MAGIC          SEX MAGIC         YELLOW,                           EGO MAGIC

Edited by - morfe on December 21, 2000 6:55:56 PM

Kylotan: I do not believe I ever stated that any part of this system is unique or original. I merely stated that the system "is far more intuitive, reasonable, and ''gosh darn feels right''able than anything else I have encountered in CRPGs" in my mind. I realize that most, if not everything stated here has been used before in one RPG or another, CRPG or not. I am merely trying to design a magic system that would work and feel the best in a computer game based in a fantastical midevil environment. Orriginality is not one of my worries as it is incredibly difficult to be TRULY original now-adays. Even if there was something I thought was orriginal, RPG''s have been arround for at least 60 years (even longer if you count children playing soldier with each other and fighting imaginary monsters) with arguably more than 1 million contributers to the art. No, I am most definetely trying to develop an individually unique system. Sorry if I misleaded you.

Brent Robinson
"Ich bin deinem Vatter!"