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Original post by Fournicolas she would only be the embodiment of Revenge, and name herself Erynis, possibly...

How strongly do these lines suggest the following emotions?

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The wind of autumn swept across the field, as a pair of white sleeves whispered in a sea of fallen leaves: A farewell without tears; Like parting clouds, Like meeting winds.

Sadness (1-5)?
Surprise (1-5)?
Overwhelmedness (1-5)?
Emotional dependency (1-5)?
Emotional vulnerability (1-5)?
Impulsiveness (1-5)?
Hatred (1-5)?
Anger (1-5)?
Grief (1-5)?
Enemy-centeredness (1-5)?
Vengeance (1-5)?

Re: Trapperzoid

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Edit mark 2: Also I forgot to add: there was also meant to be an element of a mentor in Chinu-a, to provide an teacher of mercy to Shai, since I was uncomfortable with the whole "total vengence" theme introduced in the introduction. This might be overloading the character with too many qualities, however.

This will make more sense actually, because Ghang obvious eliminted Veteran members. So it makes sense if Chinu-a was a former trainer. The age of Chinu-a needs to change.

---

On Profiling style

Profile A

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Name: Chinu-a Gender: Male Age: 40 Height: 5ft 10in Current Role: A wandering forester Former Role: Warrior and trainer of the Guochuun Clan that destroyed Shai's village Appearance: Wiry but athletic, hardy in build, with slight scars from hunting and combat; black hair roughly cut just below the shoulder; beard naturally short and wispy; right forearm bearing a distinguishing tattoo of a single word "strength"--the symbol of the Guochuun--concealed under a cloth bandage. Equipments: Grey wolf-pelt cloak over a single tunic, with worn boots suitable for long travels; a customized hunting spear, with a large barbed spearhead like a harpoon, and a bladed side like a halberd; a belt around the waist carrying a large hunting knife and a small sickle left and right; waterskins and pouches around the shoulder; and a quiver of javelins on the back.

Profile B: Original

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Name: Chinu-a Gender: Male Age: 23 Height: average (5ft 10in) *** PHYSICAL APPEARANCE: *** Chinu-a is wiry but athletic and hardy in build, as befits someone who lives off the wilderness. His black hair is roughly cut (by Chinu-a himself) to just below sholder height, and his beard is naturally short and wispy. His body is slightly scarred from life as a hunter and warrior. His main distinguishing feature present on his skin is the large tattoo on his right forearm of the symbol of the Guochuun Clan (the native word for "strength"), the clan that destroyed Shai's village. He keeps this tattoo hidden under a cloth bandage at all times. Chinu-a usually wears a grey wolf-pelt cloak over a simple tunic. In the wild, he carries his distinctive hunting spear, shaped similar to harpoon, with its large barbed spearhead sharpened on one side that allows it to act somewhat like a halberd in close combat. He also wears a belt around his waist, with a large hunting knife for use as a tool or additional weapon slung on his left hip, and on his right hip he carries a small sickle for harvesting herbs and medicinal plants. Around his shoulders he wears several waterskins and pouches for carrying supplies. On his back he bears a quiver in which he keeps several javelins for hunting from a distance. He wears worn boots suitable for long travels in rough terrain. When preparing for battle, Chinu-a leaves behind his cloak and supply equipment for extra mobility. He keeps his hunting spear, knife and javelins, and also carries battle medicine in a single set of pouches.

There were information in your original profile that were too obvious, such as the line describing Chinu-a unloading supplies to gain mobility; Sickles for gathering herbs; javelins for hunting from a distant; and a hunting knife for use as a tool or additional weapon.

*The personality of the two characters are not the same. That is where I stopped.

[Edited by - Estok on October 8, 2005 8:35:02 PM]

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Original post by Anonymous Poster What happened to the other veteran clan members that were warriors? How did Ghang convince all the trainers to change the training? Buoge is just a shaman. Why did it get down to him to speak up? Where were the other trained warriors?

I guess I glossed over the bit about the other warriors because I was running short on time [smile]. But in my mind Ghang has a very convincing personality for a barbarian leader, sort of like a dictator, and would be able to sway over most warriors quite easily. And shaman were very powerful people back in those times, equal to the leader in power as he's a religous figure, so I'm not sure his standing up to the leader would be unexpected.

But I do agree that the history is a bit vague in places.

Estok: Writing a character profile as a check-list does make some sense, especially if you are writing a summary, but I'm not sure whether cutting out all those things that you think are superflous would be the best thing to do in practice. For example:

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There were information in your original profile that were too obvious, such as the line describing Chinu-a unloading supplies to gain mobility; Sickles for gathering herbs; javelins for hunting from a distant; and a hunting knife for use as a tool or additional weapon.

In my opinion, those things are not obvious from a game design or a writing perspective. Unloading supplies to gain mobility would require some art asset changes at least. Using the hunting knife as a tool or a weapon suggests uses for them when you are writing the story. Using the sickle to gather herbs suggests that Chinu-a actually does gather herbs, and probably doesn't use the sickle as a weapon (I probably should have explicitly stated that, because in my view it would spoil the sickle if it got bloody).

I suppose it might be because I come from a software engineering background, but I've usually found it to be better to err on the side of including too much detail in documentation than too little. Since I aimed the character profile as more of a resource for writers, I think it's best to put as much in there as possible to avoid confusion. Of course, there might be a good reason for why too much detail might be a bad thing (maybe if it just gets too big to deal with?), but I think it makes sense.

Yeah, I want to second Trapper Zoid there - from the point of view of a game designer or a concept artist, it's way better if the writer, gives me too much info than too little. The revision of the entry, while more efficient, loses a lot of the essential 'attitude' of the character - in particular, the little fact that he cuts his hair himself implies worlds about his life as a lone wolf.

Summary and bios
I agree with the hair cutting part is a bit important, but it is not gone, but relocated. It is an item that belongs to personality, not appearance.

The attitude is not lost. The attitude will be very apparent when you compare with other character in the set. In addition, you still have the bios to introduce the character personally.

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In my opinion, those things are not obvious from a game design or a writing perspective. Unloading supplies to gain mobility would require some art asset changes at least. Using the hunting knife as a tool or a weapon suggests uses for them when you are writing the story. Using the sickle to gather herbs suggests that Chinu-a actually does gather herbs, and probably doesn't use the sickle as a weapon (I probably should have explicitly stated that, because in my view it would spoil the sickle if it got bloody).

This kind of information is already in the game design part. For example, if there is herb gathering in your game, it will be listed in the feature (herbs can't be harvested and wild creatures can't be hunted without someone coding those function, in addition, how important are these activities for the game? Will the player be hunting and gathering herbs? Will the player have to take care of hunger in the actual game?). These are major points in the game design portion of the document. If those features are included, your game designer will already know that Chinu-a has to have a sickle (as a required tool to gather herbs) way before the designer read the profile. These kinds of things are very obvious to a designer. It is unlikely that a designer will seek to assign damage to a sickle, or even to treat it as a weapon, although for the sake of simplicity it is usually assigned with arbitrary small damage, so that if the player feels naughty the player can kill rabbits with a sickle.

In my opinion, your claim that "using a hunting knife as a tool or a weapon" suggests uses for them for a writer is quite far-fetched. It was a large hunting knife. It is obvious that it is a weapon. And if you are a forester you must have a knife. Otherwise, what do you do with the animal you hunt? You can't cut it with the spear, you can't just tear it apart. It is unreasonable to think that Chinu-a will use the sickle as a weapon. Because the summary will document that herb gathering and simple medicine making are Chinu-a's skills. There will be no confusion that the sickle is for herb gathering. So simply listing those equipments is already enough. Your explanations told nothing beyond their expected usage.

It is not that details are omitted, but are reorganized so that they don't appear where they don't belong.

One thing a designer would look for is balance between characters. You have to think in the context when you are reading multiple profiles at once. Your style suffers because it buries information that a designer will expect to compare in paragrahs. It is okay to have unique informations in paragraphs, but not for the parts where each characters has their equivalent information. For instance, skills should definitely not be written in a paragraph. It is like asking the designer to overlook the information.

From the perspective of a designer, I would either need a hi-lighter, or to rewrite the information as a list.

[Edited by - Estok on October 9, 2005 1:34:44 AM]

Re: Plots with drastic changes

The clan went from having honor as their code to having no honor. A "very convincing personality" is not very convincing in this situation. When you say that he is able to sway over most warriors quite easily, it creates a loop hole. Because the viewer cannot imagine that a very honorable clan is also vulnerable to be persuaded to act in the opposite direction. I am not saying that Buoge is unreasonable to stand up, but compared to the other warriors with honor, Ghang would have to get through many confrontations before Buoge needs to stand up.

What happened to the comrades of Ghang? Those that were trained with him in honor? What happened to Ghang's trainer and the other trainers?

To make such drastic change, the leader must be riding on an external cause. It might be a famie, a plaque, or an external threat by another clan or the government. Clans don't become aggresive just for the sake of being aggresive. There needs to be a driving force. Depending on how small you want the semantic circle to me, the cause would either relate to Shai's village, another village like Shai's, or the government behind Shai's village.

Side topic:

The scene that 5MG described wasn't a pillage. The barbarians were just killing people, they weren't taking things. You can't loot when you are on horseback and when you torch houses to draw villagers out. It was not a pillage. Tactically, it doesn't take warriors to eliminate this kind of barbarians--they have almost no armor, they wear fur, they ride on horses, they come at night with torches--all of these factors go against them.


Another consideration:

It takes a lot of confidence to decide that revenge is an option. It is unclear where Shai got such confidence. It would make sense if Shai was already a warrior, but she had been out of town. It won't make sense if she was just a villager from a peaceful village, unless Shai is quite knowledgeable about her options.

Well that took longer the expected but the results are finally in and ready to be viewed. The results of Round in order from first to last are as follows:

Entry 7 - Airre Running in Flowers
Entry 8 - Chinu-a
Entry 3 - AEGER
Entry 1 - SOROLAND & SANGLANTE
Entry 6 - Micah
Entry 9 - Anahata
Entry 5 - Kael of Krome
Entry 10 - Chiba, Ichiwa
Entry 2 - Shai
Entry 4 - Shin - Disqualified


The score are:

      style Creativity  Applicability Popularity TotalE1	6.0	5.0 	  5.0	        6.7	  5.7E2	5.0	3.0	  3.0	        0.8	  3.0E3	7.0	7.0	  7.0	        2.5	  5.9E4	0.0	0.0	  0.0	        0.0	  0.0E5	7.0	6.0	  6.0	        0.0	  4.8E6	7.0	5.0	  6.0	        1.7	  4.9E7	8.0	8.0	  7.0	        5.0	  7.0E8	3.0	7.0	  4.0	        10.0	  6.0E9	6.0	6.0	  4.0	        3.3	  4.8E10	7.0	5.0	  5.0	        0.0	  4.3

The results may seem lower then last round but I decided to raise my expectation this round. A score of 5 can be considered to have met the requirements and anything higher then that can be thought of as having exceeded expectations

The following checklist was the things I was looking for while reading the entries:
1. Who is this character?
2. What do they look like?
3. What is there personality?
4. What is their relationship with Shai?
5. What is their significance in the story?
6. How are they introduced into the story?
7. What is the meaning of their tattoo?
8. What is the characters motivation in the story?
9. What are the external conflicts that the character is involved in?
10. What are the internal conflicts they involved in?
11. Does the character add the story?
12. How does there past impact their current situation?
13. Do they seem believable
14. How well developed is the character?

Reviews:

Entry 1 – Sorlond & Sanglante

The idea of two characters cursed and forced to share one body presents many game play and story possibilities to explore. But the profile seemed to have more questions then answers and neither of the characters seem well fleshed out. Also considering how the curse is such a central aspect of the characters I would have expected at least a few sentences on its origins and plot significance. The same goes for the tattoos while they where mentioned no details of their importance was given. All in all though there seem to be some good foundations that could be built on.

Entry 2 – Shai

There didn’t appear to be much to this character. The idea of someone purely consumed with revenge seemed hollow and the profile present no indication that there was anything more to her then that. The profile also has a lot more detail on the secret army then it did on Shai. While secret armies and underground cities are interesting subject matters I didn’t think it was believable that an army 3000 strong could be formed without people knowing it.

Entry 3 - Aeger

This character seemed conflicted on one had he is supposed to be Shai’s guardian angel who is attempting to guide her off the path of violence and vengeance but at the same time he is supposed to be an adversary to be overcome. The character seemed like less of a villain and more of a constant annoyance always getting in the way as the player tries to purse their goal and the spouting some rhetoric to justify their actions. I would have liked to see more details on Aeger’s relationship to Shai, such as why it is important to him that Shai not exact her revenge? More details on his position within the Leersman would have been helpful he seems to be able to command other Leersman at will, which implies that he must be a figure of some importance.

Entry 5 – Kael of Krome

The presentation is clear and concise and there is enough information here to get an indication as to the type of person Kael is. However from reading the profile there is no indication of who he is and how he relates to the games story and Shai. Some more details on his childhood growing within the barbarian horde and his reaction to that life would have help to better flesh out this character.

Enty 6 – Micah

I can’t help but wondering what this character brings to story and what part he plays. The idea of a wandering bard implies that he should be a very knowledgeable character providing insights into new places, backgrounds on famous people, and have access to rumors and secrets that other characters wouldn’t And yet the character is portrayed as meek and cowardly two traits that seem contrary to his goals and profession. Details on his relationship with the main character and importance of his tattoo would have enhanced this piece.

Entry 7 – Airre Running in Flowers

This is a cute and fresh profile for an interesting anime style character. Although I can’t help but wonder how well she fits in with the concept scene in the introduction. Some more details on the role she plays in the story would have been helpful in properly visualizing her role in the story.

Entry 8 – Chinu-a

The profile suffered greatly by being overly verbose and with numerous run on sentences. While there is great deal of information about the character, their motivations, and personality it presented in a manor that made it a choir to read. Presenting the information in a clear more concise manor would have improved is significantly. The character itself however was rather clichéd and they seemed overly ambivalent and lacking in conviction.

Entry 9 – Anahata

It’s a shame this wasn’t a profile because the old man could have been an interesting character profile. As scene it does a good job but then of course that wasn’t the objective of this round. It is hard to comment about it further then that. The idea of a wise old hermit is nothing new and so I’m left wondering how this character differs from the stereotype.

Entry 10 – Chiba, Ichiwa

This seemed more like a fragment of character profile rather then completed profile and leaves the reader wondering where the rest is. The profile is far to brief to, and lacks any deep understanding or insights into the character. While it implies a few things it does give any details of facts about the character. Nor does it explain who this character is, and what relevance they have to the story.

Well, now that the results are in, I'd like to post the full profile for Soroland I wrote; most of what got cut was the extended story of how the curse fell upon him and Sanglante. It just took too much space, word for word, though looking back, I could have probably condensed it into the limit.

http://x0r.us/archive2/sorolan.htm

Congrats to the winner of this round (whoever you may be!). I'm glad my entry stood up with the majority - gives me hope I can still create! [smile]

I hope there will be lots of entries and votes for the next round, so, good luck to everyone!.