Quote: Original post by stimarco
The IBM PC was DESIGNED for PC-DOS / MS-DOS. The traditional PC's BIOS' behaviour is therefore intentional and not in any way a 'bug'. Windows and MS-DOS manage to cope with its foibles quite well.

No they don't.

MS-DOS side-steps the issue by not understanding or caring what a time zone is.

Windows (if so configured), ignores the issue by naively assuming that it's the only system on the machine and that its time zone changes will be the only ones applied by any os.

This of course, includes other installations of Windows which might also be installed. Between them, multiple installations of Windows will set the clock incorrectly if they all compensate for Daylight Saving Time*.

Mark

* Which I personally think is a stupid idea and should be abolished everywhere.

Quote: Original post by markr

Quote: Original post by stimarco
The IBM PC was DESIGNED for PC-DOS / MS-DOS. The traditional PC's BIOS' behaviour is therefore intentional and not in any way a 'bug'. Windows and MS-DOS manage to cope with its foibles quite well.

No they don't.

MS-DOS side-steps the issue by not understanding or caring what a time zone is.

MS-DOS is a single-tasking, semi-evolved OS originally released in 1981 and incrementally updated until 1995. It isn't supported and sure as hell never suffered from not knowing it was running on a PC in Wales rather than a PC in Kazakhstan. The clock's purpose was to provide a source for the time and date stamp used by the filing system.

Quote:
Windows (if so configured), ignores the issue by naively assuming that it's the only system on the machine and that its time zone changes will be the only ones applied by any os.

Windows is handling the PC BIOS' clock exactly how it is _supposed_ to be handled. For fuck's sake, READ a post before replying to it: I'll repeat my point one more time: THERE IS NO INTERNATIONAL STANDARD FOR HOW A COMPUTER'S BATTERY-BACKED CLOCK IS SUPPOSED TO WORK!

The Wintel box's clock works the way it does because that's how IBM designed it to work, way back in 1981.

If you don't want to run Windows on a Wintel box, that's _your_ prerogative, but neither MS, IBM, American Megatrends, nor Dell has any legal requirement to support you.

Quote:
This of course, includes other installations of Windows which might also be installed. Between them, multiple installations of Windows will set the clock incorrectly if they all compensate for Daylight Saving Time*.

Nowhere on the box or in its official specs lists does Microsoft make any statement regarding official support for multiple OSes being installed on the same PC. Yes, there are some utilities in versions of Windows based on the NT/Win2K core, but it's not something they go into in anal detail in that slim "Getting Started With Windows" booklet. Hell, that tedious "Windows Tour" doesn't mention it _at all_! The horror! The horror!

Now, this may also come as a shock to you, but if you phone them up asking why you can't fit a 10-foot wheel to a brand new Ford Ka that you're trying to convert into a Monster Truck, Ford _won't_ support you officially. They might even mention that you'll invalidate your car's warranty.

This is a common practice in what we like to refer to as "The Real World".

--
Sean Timarco Baggaley

PS: That said, my PC has both WinXP Home and Pro installed on the same hard disk. The clock works fine. (I also have Daylight Savings mode enabled.)

Quote: Original post by stimarco
If you don't want to run Windows on a Wintel box, that's _your_ prerogative, but neither MS, IBM, American Megatrends, nor Dell has any legal requirement to support you.

IBM will be more than happy to sell you support ... but it'll cost you an arm and a leg. Dell does sell these with the following support:

Quote: Please note that the Red Hat® Linux operating system offered on Dell Precision systems is Dell factory-installed and therefore will receive the same support as other Dell factory-installed operating systems.

Quote: Nowhere on the box or in its official specs lists does Microsoft make any statement regarding official support for multiple OSes being installed on the same PC.

Microsoft will sell you Virtual Server 2005 which they claim to "support" linux. MS suggests running it on Windows Server, but claim that it can be used with XP Pro in a non-production environment.

Quote: Now, this may also come as a shock to you, but if you phone them up asking why you can't fit a 10-foot wheel to a brand new Ford Ka that you're trying to convert into a Monster Truck, Ford _won't_ support you officially. They might even mention that you'll invalidate your car's warranty.

Unless you do a really good job, in which case they will sponsor you (give you money) - see BLUE THUNDER. [wink]

Well the problem still exists in both Linux and Windows even them both updating from an internet clock source.

Both know which time zone they are suppose to be in. GMT -6 (No Daylight savings where I live).

They both keep setting the clock, thus the other OS sets it back, then the other sets it forward...

If I simply boot windows, update to internet time then boot to linux the clock is 6 hours off... I can repeat this procedure in any order...

Either you have Windows and Linux using different time zones, or you have one assuming GMT for the hardware clock, and the other assuming Local.

The trick is to convince both of them that the bios clock is kept in GMT not local time. As long as they do that, they'll be in agreement.

I believe that more recent versions of Windows are capable of doing this - but I've no idea how.

I have a machine which is not in GMT at the moment, and boots Linux and Windows - they both have the correct time. This is a win 2000 server box.

Mark

Well I was able to tell Linux by checking this box "System uses UTC Clock" -- Universal time clock..?

As for telling windows, I couldn't find the option in the basic user interface settings... Its prolly burried into the registry somewhere. I'm sure someone has written a program to modify it or a google search may provide me the info.