Hope I''m not ticking anyone off w/ the seperate posts, just got a lot of questions The Game: A 3D isometric SF RPG The Problem: Should items you trade be constant from port to port, or random? The Details: Imagine you''ve got as many as 50 different ports to travel to. Some are shady, some are heavily taxed, some offer limited goods while others buy everything. Should the items they buy and sell be constant, and therefore reliable (and eventually boring)? Or should they be more random, and therefore more risky (and possibly annoying)? Example 1: Constant commodities You start out with a hidden map. You explore around, and find what ports import and export. If you find the right ports, you can buy low, then sell high. After awhile, trade routes would become static. Go to Omicron Theta, sell 200 tons of Biomemetic Gel, Buy 200 tons of Stercasium, sell it at Epsilon Eridani... etc. Reliable. If you find a good route, you can make a killing. But after you explore, where''s the challenge? Example 2: Random commodities You start out with the same hidden map. You arrive at a new port and they likely buy some of your items. Sometimes they want them all. Sometimes they want none. Same for what they have to sell (sometimes what you want, sometimes not) You never quite know where to go. You''re better off carrying a mix of items. The clock is ticking because you always have to pay for the fuel and crew wages. While possibly more interesting, it could be annoying. It''s also harder to make a ton of money, because you can''t maximize your hold. Example 3? A mix? Maybe some ports should tend to import / export certain commodities? Rather than totally random, there''s a greater chance for some items, and a random chance they''ll buy / sell others. They''d never (rarely?) buy what they export, or sell what they import. Which would be better? -------------------- Just waiting for the mothership...

An improved Frontier-type system.

Some systems are technological, some agricultarl, some mining, etc. Thus they need different items, and some things would be cheaper/more expensive than elsewhere. They also have some things that are illegal.

Now, if you keep trading items between two ports, you will eventually cause a deficit in items you are trading and a surplus at the destination. Therefore, it would no longer be economically viable to use that route any more and you would have to go somewhere else.

Also, by settling into a repetitive trade route, you would make yourself a target to pirates/bandits who know you are carrying large amounts of goods along an exact route at a standard frequency.


NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ...

I agree with morfe, the best way would be a mix! :-)

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www.BadEntertainment.net

I totally agree with morfe, a combination would be best..

but this would only work with commodities that are shipped in small quantites (and cost a lot).
Think of a planetary economy! A small colony might only need so much of everything to keep going, but compared to the demands of a densely populated planet one shipment of whatever you bring will have hardly any effect on prices at all.

With small colonies/stations.... you could use a system like in X, where you´d supply stuff to various orbital factories. Each factory had a few goods it required and one product it made (from those goods). So you kind of knew how much they´d need and how much they put out, but it got boring after a while.

So you´d definitely need some kind of random factor, changing prices continuously... And there might be some kinds of "galactic events": War breaks out in the arcadian sector -> high demand for arms and medicine.. (the smart trader of course supplies both sides, prolonging the war and making the most profit)

If a port is owned by a planet that is well known for producing widgets, then it stands that you''re typicly going to find a large number of widgets there. If you need metals to repair ships and a planet with a vast armada of ships is at war, then it stands that they''ll need metals. If you could implement an item production/consumption system of some sort, then have the items available at a port dependant on that then I think that''d be cool.

quote: Original post by morfe

Some systems are technological, some agricultarl, some mining, etc. Thus they need different items, and some things would be cheaper/more expensive than elsewhere. They also have some things that are illegal.

Now, if you keep trading items between two ports, you will eventually cause a deficit in items you are trading and a surplus at the destination. Therefore, it would no longer be economically viable to use that route any more and you would have to go somewhere else.

I see what you''re saying. This is good because you know where you can sell a good, but you still have to keep moving. It''s like the random commodity idea, but a little bit more predictable. You can reason: "I''m trading with Capella a lot, the demand is going to go down."

But like Hase was saying this assumes you have a huge impact on the market. When you start, at least, you don''t necessarily have that kind of influence. But you would once you''ve grown... although this does seem to work for small outposts and frontier worlds...

(not that I''m too worried about realism, I just want the system to make sense)

quote:
Also, by settling into a repetitive trade route, you would make yourself a target to pirates/bandits who know you are carrying large amounts of goods along an exact route at a standard frequency.

Got it. I like this. This one goes in! (Based on how much profit you''re making, and your scale... pirates won''t bother with small fries)

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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by Hase

With small colonies/stations.... you could use a system like in X, where you´d supply stuff to various orbital factories. Each factory had a few goods it required and one product it made (from those goods). So you kind of knew how much they´d need and how much they put out, but it got boring after a while.

So you´d definitely need some kind of random factor, changing prices continuously... And there might be some kinds of "galactic events": War breaks out in the arcadian sector -> high demand for arms and medicine.. (the smart trader of course supplies both sides, prolonging the war and making the most profit)

Thanks Hase! Did X get boring because you''d mapped all of the trade outposts, and there was nothing new to see? Or was it too predictable?

I like random events shaking things up. I''m hoping that the most natural random event can be in system traders competing with you... but that still has to be worked out.

It seems there''s a fine line between making trade random enough to be interesting, and so unpredictable that it''s frustrating...


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Just waiting for the mothership...

quote: Original post by kseh

If a port is owned by a planet that is well known for producing widgets, then it stands that you''re typicly going to find a large number of widgets there. If you need metals to repair ships and a planet with a vast armada of ships is at war, then it stands that they''ll need metals. If you could implement an item production/consumption system of some sort, then have the items available at a port dependant on that then I think that''d be cool.

kseh,

I see what you''re saying. It sounds like demand would move around as events changed.

Would you want this to be perfectly dependable, or would you tolerate variability? Here''s what I mean:

You know that Capella is famed for its production of Semisentient Metals. So you jump in. In senario one, you can always rely on Capella having a huge supply. But in senario 2, you may jump in and find a huge freighter fleet docking with the station, leaving you little or none. Or there might have been a production shortage, raising prices or reducing quanity... etc.

Your trip might be for nothing. I''m worried about doing this, because it can be annoyingly arbitrary. But predictable demand can be VERY boring, even if it is mobile.




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Just waiting for the mothership...

To prevent instances like this, you could ensure there is always a black market. Of course, prices would be higher, and there could be a risk of prosecution, but you can always get something if you really need it.

Also in respect to widgets, if a civilisation has interplanetary / sytem travel, don''t you think that more than one planet will have access and the ability to build that technology too?


NPCs will be inherited from the basic Entity class. They will be fully independent, and carry out their own lives oblivious to the world around them ... that is, until you set them on fire ...

I think you should have each port have a production for each defferent commodity, and every port has equal usage of commodities. That way one may make a lot of X and need to get Y by trading for it with X! Just have an inventory/production/usage for each port.