I haven't played the game, but I have mined iron ore.

Where did I start mining my ore?

On the ground.

Starting to go underground in large numbers for ores is a farily new thing. Salt mines have been around for a very long time, and some materials that are found in fairly soft stones have been mined with tunneling for a long time, but things like Iron have mostly been taken from bogs and the like for a long time, simply because tunneling for ore was too costly when they could just walk out into a bog and poke around with a rod.

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Original post by Talroth I haven't played the game, but I have mined iron ore. Where did I start mining my ore? On the ground. Starting to go underground in large numbers for ores is a farily new thing. Salt mines have been around for a very long time, and some materials that are found in fairly soft stones have been mined with tunneling for a long time, but things like Iron have mostly been taken from bogs and the like for a long time, simply because tunneling for ore was too costly when they could just walk out into a bog and poke around with a rod.

I’m aware of that but as I’ve said some where in the Ball Park of realism. To me and a few other people from the north of the UK *Cough*York*Cough* mining means going underground with machines and pick axes. FYI i know all about how to mine and how they do it, the method you described in a medieval method of getting iron, they don’t do that anymore, they dig, in quarries sometimes, in grate holes in the ground the rest of the time. ¬_¬

…and for that matter I’ve been in a cave which existed because of an old mining operation come to think of it… o0

Siolis

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I'm currently writing a novel based on a game idea I’ve got which I’ve put aside for the moment but in the game design I’ve got a plan for a realistic mining system, with caves, breakable walls, ore stores, tools, the works and I’ve checked out the C++ code and database handle i would need to do it and its perfectly possible to make.

Ok, what your describing there is a full game, simply designed around mining. Thats fine, but even if it was feasible to make every aspect of WoW ultra realistic, do you genuinely think it would make a better game? If mining is what you want to do then play a mining game, and all power to you for designing one. If you want to play a fishing simulator you buy one. If you want to Adventure with friends in a fantasy world you play WoW and it may satisfy that desire very effectively.

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just a little realism to make me feel like I’m playing a game based on a real life activity, not trying to imagine myself playing a game based on a real life activity.

You can't seriously expect people to agree that the sub games of WoW are failures, because they don't fit your own design ideas. You're stating your opinion and that certainly isn't a fair way to criticize the games design.

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Original post by Siolis Okay then, fair enough. Hey you know, in my next game I’m going to have people fighting 7ft tall blood thirsty demons armed with giant flaming axes and armored with magical Tritainum amour straight from the devils arse itself with nothing but fish. Turn +1 could be the base weapon and you could work you way up to a Shark +10 with added Teeth modifier.

Reminds me of Lunatix, fighting the monsters in my closet with a plunger protected by my fuzzy bunny slippers. :)

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You want make a computer game you have to at least try to get it some what in the ball park of realism or it just looks stupid. Ok maybe we don’t need to have a mining company who work 20 hour days and get though rock at 1cm per hour but i would at least like to have a wall with ore in, even if the wall doesn’t break down when you hit it with a pick axe, its better than a fucking node.

Actually, from what I hear, mining was done by just finding it laying around on the ground. Usually comes with the comment that we won't be able to escape another dark age because the easily available metals aren't around any more.

Also, as you point out, your solution isn't perfectly realistic, either. Both you and Blizzard picked some arbitrary "real enough" point. I'm pretty sure there are people who wouldn't think your solution was real enough and I know there are people who think Blizzard's solution was more than real enough.

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Mario was created (relativly) eons ago during the time computers still had 8bit graphics.

And still going strong, last I checked.

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is trying to realistically display a virtual world like what WOW is.

That's the trouble, now, isn't it. How does one "realistically" display a virtual world? In other words, how does "realistic" apply to "virtual" or "fantasy"?

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Original post by DogCity Quote: I'm currently writing a novel based on a game idea I’ve got which I’ve put aside for the moment but in the game design I’ve got a plan for a realistic mining system, with caves, breakable walls, ore stores, tools, the works and I’ve checked out the C++ code and database handle i would need to do it and its perfectly possible to make. Ok, what your describing there is a full game, simply designed around mining. Thats fine, but even if it was feasible to make every aspect of WoW ultra realistic, do you genuinely think it would make a better game? If mining is what you want to do then play a mining game, and all power to you for designing one. If you want to play a fishing simulator you buy one. If you want to Adventure with friends in a fantasy world you play WoW and it may satisfy that desire very effectively. Quote: just a little realism to make me feel like I’m playing a game based on a real life activity, not trying to imagine myself playing a game based on a real life activity. You can't seriously expect people to agree that the sub games of WoW are failures, because they don't fit your own design ideas. You're stating your opinion and that certainly isn't a fair way to criticize the games design.

Not a full game, its part of a RPG, the reason i switched to novel is becuase the world got to big and i couldnt be asked to do the whole game dev thing, besides the point. I think some areas have been slap dashed and for how much respect the game gets it is severally lacking quality in some of its sub games. I say again, if your going to build something, do it right or dont do it at all. If you want a mining system, get it done right or dont include it in ya dam game.

My design ideas have nothing to do with it. The issue is that its mining system has been done, done and then done again, WOW, with its budget, should have done better than to do a better clone of a crap system, thats no personal opinion, its fact that its been done before, if your making a "New" game, do a new and improved vershion. Dosent matter how much polish you put on old shit, you still going to have a lump of old shit when your done.

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Original post by Way Walker Also, as you point out, your solution isn't perfectly realistic, either. Both you and Blizzard picked some arbitrary "real enough" point. I'm pretty sure there are people who wouldn't think your solution was real enough and I know there are people who think Blizzard's solution was more than real enough. Quote: Mario was created (relativly) eons ago during the time computers still had 8bit graphics. And still going strong, last I checked. Quote: is trying to realistically display a virtual world like what WOW is. That's the trouble, now, isn't it. How does one "realistically" display a virtual world? In other words, how does "realistic" apply to "virtual" or "fantasy"?

As i said, its not ultra realism I’m after, just somewhere in the ball park of realism. Blizzard went just wide of the fence, I’m inside at least.

Did i say he wasn’t, i just bought super Mario sunshine last week and I’m loving it, nothing wrong with him, just his back story and image was made a long time ago, computer game characters have evolved since him but that doesn’t make him obsolete.

You read a book, lord of the rings say. The world is high fantasy; it describes elves, orcs, wizards, hobbits etc. An orc goes to attack one of the main characters, one of the hobbits. He pulls a Storm Carbine automatic machine gun out and fills the orc full of lead. That would be a complete misrepresentation of a fantasy world which is fictional, but has its own rules. To me, its no different if you have to attack a node with a pickaxe if you want ore instead of a wall because mining needs a pick axe or some kind of drill and digging spot like a wall or the ground or something but not a randomly generated node.

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Original post by Anonymous Poster Once again Ultima Online (UO) is proven to kick WoW' ass. As long ago as UO was created guess what it had in it..Mining. Mining in UO, guess what, required you to dig at certain tiles, which would be *drum roll* rock tiles, either in caves or on certain rock areas out in the open.

I never played UO but at least its better than WOW for a fact but it could be better in my opinion.

Siolis

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Original post by Siolis True but they have no ore, like in the wall. They have nodes of ore, but try asking a miner if his job is that convenient. Siolis

Here is the big difference: A real miner gets paid to spend all day underground pulling ore from the earth...However, a real miner will not pay a game company to play a simulation of thier day to day job.

too much realisam simply KILLS games.

Lion cubs often play fight with each other, this allows them to learn hunting and killing skills...but its still a game to them...add more "realisam" and the lions go from play fighting, where they only mock bite, to real biteing where blood is drawn...if lion cubs were to play fight with as much realisam as some people want in thier games, the entire species would be extinct from the cubs killing each other off.

Mining is not limited to 'Cave Mining'. There are many types of surface mining, such as strip mining or pit mining. Don't forget panning. Heres a link to some information and pictures on various surface mining methods.

Reality is perceived differently based on the persons experience and knowledge of the world around them.

Was there a complaint up there that surface mining is a medieval way of obtaining ore? Aren't axes a medieval way of fighting?

WoW is supposed to be kinda medieval.

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Original post by Siolis As i said, its not ultra realism I’m after, just somewhere in the ball park of realism. Blizzard went just wide of the fence, I’m inside at least.

Of course, you snipped the part where I argued that what Blizzard has you do is similar to what happened in the real world. Even if it didn't actually happen in real life, your solution isn't much more realistic than Blizzard's. It just happens that your arbitrarily chosen "real enough" point is a few steps closer than Blizzard's.

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Did i say he wasn’t, i just bought super Mario sunshine last week and I’m loving it, nothing wrong with him, just his back story and image was made a long time ago, computer game characters have evolved since him but that doesn’t make him obsolete.

They haven't "evolved" as much as you think. Jak and Daxter? Conker? Ratchet and Clank?

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You read a book, lord of the rings say. The world is high fantasy; it describes elves, orcs, wizards, hobbits etc. An orc goes to attack one of the main characters, one of the hobbits. He pulls a Storm Carbine automatic machine gun out and fills the orc full of lead. That would be a complete misrepresentation of a fantasy world which is fictional, but has its own rules. To me, its no different if you have to attack a node with a pickaxe if you want ore instead of a wall because mining needs a pick axe or some kind of drill and digging spot like a wall or the ground or something but not a randomly generated node.

Ever play Shadowrun? Final Fantasy?

FWIW, surface mining is perfectly realistic depending on the age of the world. In 3000BC you could find many precious metals just sitting right on the ground. Early civilizations picked these up and turned them into works of art, armor and adornments for royal buildings pretty quickly just by beating them into shape. Smelting and mining didn't come until much later, as surface metal deposits became more scarce.

Then, of course, there's magic...

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But how would you design mining to be risky, interesting and dangerous? Rocks don't attack (normally), acrobatic and platform jumping gameplay is probably a no-no, and you have to crawl back out of every hole you make. Geomoding, as shown in Red Faction (why doesn't anyone use this these days?) might be fun, but it's possible to get stuck, and hard to let you go in any one direction for long.

I think you could do 3D mining with reasonable limits, such as faking it with a flat plane and mixes of prefab "tunnel" meshes. But you'd need to worry about things like pumping in air, pumping out water, explosive blowouts, keeping your magical mining equipment and orc slaves in shape, and fighting against enemy miners. Could be very Dungeon Keeper-ish.