Here’s a thought. One thing that I’ve seen on a very limited basis in games are world changing quests. EQ2 is one of the first games I’ve seen (personally) that allows the playerbase to unlock something. In its case it’s the Froglocks. However I think the opportunity for these sort of quests in MMO’s is not used nearly enough. Final Fantasy, does real good at incorporating quests to unlocking content. However they focus completely on the single player. Each player has to do that specific quest in order to get the content. I suggest some compromises. I’ll use a VERY generic world description to facilitate my examples. You have a world that after some great cataclysm, has been divided into many different segments. The story is advanced to the point where the world has slowly begun to reconnect. Some segments have been able to make contact with others, while some have remained closed off. Rumor has it that even a whole half of the world may even be “lost”. Now how do we use quests here for world changing effects? Well First off there are the segments already connected. In order for a player to access one of these segments they have to do some sort of personal quest. This unlocks the “Friendly segment” for free access back and forth. Next are the segments that are still closed off. These have some quest that must be completed by someone, or a small group of someone. Once this quest is completed, the segment opens up for the world at large. This usually opens up new adventuring areas, perhaps a new town, or even a dungeon. This is usually about a zone sized thing. Finally is the “lost half” of the world. Similar to opening up the other zones this requires a quest. However this quest is going to be VERY big, long, involved and require a great number of people to complete. This will open up about as much content as an expansion. New zones (some which would need to be unlocked themselves), new starting areas, new classes/races, and a wealth of new items would all be come available. As players discover new things throughout the world they get the option to name landmarks. (Submitted to GM’s for approval of course.) As new expansion packs get released for the game, they follow the same sort of pattern, some easy personal zones to unlock, some that must require a group/guild to open, and one or two that require the playerbase to open up…usually the second half of the pack itself.

Your idea is good except for that last part, I've rarely seen any type of raid in DAoC or EQ large enough to be a signifcant fraction of the playerbase let alone the size I think your talking about.

Numbers were not provided for a reason. But you are right.

However, nobody said that it had to be a raid, (though I expect some stuff could be like a big raid boss fight)

It could be a large series of quests, that require a large span of levels to accomplish.

It should be such that no one guild will have completed the entire task to open up the new area. Whether or not they can do the final opening by themselves...thats possible. But the overall quest/quest series should be designed to be used by alot of people...

Why not structure it with a series of smaller objectives, like the "Assault" gametype in Unreal Tournament?

That way, many people can be involved in the achievement without having to do a huge amount of coordinating.

I understand having world changing quests to make players feel like they mean something. But with the amount of content required for these types of games already, how can you justify making twice what you'd need to start?

Having a 'lost world' locked away is such a huge amount of content to not use. And then, if you just rehash all the same models with different colors, that's not much fun either.

The expansion approach has been used ... They just don't make it require the players to complete quests first to 'unlock' it.. you just have to open your wallet. :D


I just think it'd take waaay too much work for the content part of it

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Original post by drowner I understand having world changing quests to make players feel like they mean something. But with the amount of content required for these types of games already, how can you justify making twice what you'd need to start? Having a 'lost world' locked away is such a huge amount of content to not use. And then, if you just rehash all the same models with different colors, that's not much fun either. The expansion approach has been used ... They just don't make it require the players to complete quests first to 'unlock' it.. you just have to open your wallet. :D I just think it'd take waaay too much work for the content part of it

QFT.

I remember playing City of Heroes, when they removed the Fifth Column, a perfectly viable villian group of Nazis, and replaced them with the Council, a group more reminiscent of Cobra from G.I. Joe.

Why did they do this? For storyline reasons, of course. But there was a huge outcry. People liked beating up on the Nazis!

In a genre where content is even more important than usual, such as MMORPG's, world changing quests aren't practical; what's added never makes up for the loss of the stuff you could once do.

Horizons has/had (because current ones are finished) quests like this.
Two of them were to unlock playable races. One to reclaim a city & cure for a disease. Lesser ones to access islands & plots.

Honestly, I didn't really didn't do much with the race one, I really didn't like the looks of either of them that much. The reclaim of the city I did help with, but this was more because I heard about the disease & it's annoying effects & didn't want to have to deal with it. The one for access to island/plots, I did that so that I could buy a plot.

I think it's a matter of what reasons people will/want to take part & what will be required of them. All of Horizons some require building/transport (Oh the mind numbing running/construction!!! Sorry, but some of the amounts seamed over kill.), but that allowed the crafters & lower lvl people a means of taking part.

Biggest thing is to balance fun vs effort, along with including as many people as you can.

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I understand having world changing quests to make players feel like they mean something. But with the amount of content required for these types of games already, how can you justify making twice what you'd need to start? Having a 'lost world' locked away is such a huge amount of content to not use. And then, if you just rehash all the same models with different colors, that's not much fun either. The expansion approach has been used ... They just don't make it require the players to complete quests first to 'unlock' it.. you just have to open your wallet. :D I just think it'd take waaay too much work for the content part of it

I do agree that it is true, that alot of content is "wasted" at release with the loss of 1/2 of the world, however, I see it as a bonus, not a waste. Along with the world changing quests certain zone area's should be allowed to be named by players arriving at them (not too many, since named items would need to be approved..I.E. no Buttlover's Hill).

However, Its not so much that the same models will be rehashed in the same, but the point is its almost a whole new expanion in and of itself that players can work towards.

As for expansions. I don't intend for the ENTIRE expansion to need to be unlocked. But like FFXI does, to get to the meat of the content, stuff will need to be unlocked.

An idea I like is the possibility that most of the world is empty and the players are given the ability to build up the rest of the world themselves. This would not be simply give them access to the code to generate buildings but to put in-game building machines that the players can use to create their own buildings on land that they own.

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage Why not structure it with a series of smaller objectives, like the "Assault" gametype in Unreal Tournament? That way, many people can be involved in the achievement without having to do a huge amount of coordinating.

This is one of the ways our MMO project is tackling "world changing quests."

First of all let me say that players are screaming to have in interactive world where their actions mean something. Not all things that players scream for should be done, but this is one. People are getting bored of MMOs and who can blame them when its not even as good as a current generation FPS.

Second of all, one of our ideas is to take the Assault type map with objectives and instead of standing there hitting the "E" button for 10 seconds it actually requires RPG skills. So on a mission you might need a medic, a hacker, a demolition expert, and some infantry.

But that doesnt address the world changing aspect just yet. Imagine that objective on a huge scale with multiple parts, as part of small story lines that build up to a large storyline. The end result (and several milestones along the way) have affect the world.

You've expanded your drug empire across the southern half of the city of Megalith? Now the corporate police will start roaming that section checking ids and inventories. Did you do a leet hack on a military installation with the help of your clan? Great now the hacker underground may call on you to help them bring down the Corporation media system.

World changing events do take more effort, but they are a must as we move forward.