Bushido Blade

I looked up all the stuff you guys said and watched some video, when it was available.

Prince of Persia:
Well, it looks like it'd be fun to play, but it's not really what I would call movie-like. Well, the whole fight does not look movie like, that is, the cinematic leaps and 'bullet time' ( using the term loosely, heh ) are a nice touch, and certainly feel cinematic, but the rest of the fighting doesn't look like something you'd see in a theatre.

Sid Meier's Pirates:
This really doesn't have the cinematic quality I had in mind either. The atmosphere of the game looks nice, but the swordplay itself doesn't fit the bill(err, what I'm looking for, that is). It seems that the 2 pirates kinda go through the pattern of "Swing ( w/ hit or block ), Pause, Swing again, pause, swing, pause." Sorry...

Oni:
Well, I didn't find any video of Oni wielding a sword (only guns and melee), but if the melee is any indication, then I'd guess that its swordplay is not what I'm looking for.

Knights of the Old Republic:
Sometimes the swordplay looks nice, but it's a shame you don't get to be involved in it. Other times, the fights look kinda odd, like a sith will be attacking a gunner ( and they're both standing still! ) and a jedi ran behind the sith, 2 or 3 swipes of the saber = dead sith. I mean... what sith is gonna sit there and let himself get swiped in the back 3 times without retaliation ( let alone how he could survive the first one, heh )

Jedi Knight: Academy:
I own this game actually. While it is fun, it really lacks the cinematic feeling of the Trilogies. There's no blocking mechanism, and you might hit people with your saber several times before they die ( more likely on sith ).

Crossed Swords:
Neo Geo game, couldn't find any video so... ?

And on the topic of Chambara:
Well, I hadn't heard of that term before you mentioned it. Googled it, looked around, and while I didn't see any video, if the swordplay is anything like that found in movies like Crouching Tiger, Zorro, Star wars, and well... etc... ( the swordplay in the blade movies is kind of odd and doesn't feel right though ... ) then Yes, I suppose I would be referring to Chambara style.

Any other thoughts? Do you feel this is impossible?

Edit:
Bushido Blade:
Ah, yes, I own this as well. The swordplay is nice, and I like the mechanics of it, but I would be hesistant to call it movie-like.

Also... I think one of the things that breaks my suspension of disbelief most often with games dealing with swordplay, is the single button, single stance blocking that most games use... I mean, who blocks 2 entirely different attacks with the exact same movement? Anyway... thoughts?

Might I recommend Ninja Gaiden for the Xbox? The game is WAY too difficult in my opinion, but the combat is awsome.

Just looked at some video of Ninja Gaiden. Looks fun, but not really cinematic. Looks very hack 'n slash to me. Also has the super-uber-one-pose-blocks-all thing that I mentioned. :/ ...

Anyone else?

The first two Prince of Persia games (i.e. the 2-D ones) had rather good swordplay and they were more "movie-like" than what I've come across in other games. I guess we're looking more for fencing style than anything else?

Chambara, for those of you not acquainted with the term, is the word which describes the "heroic swordplay movies", in Japanese. Lonewolf and Cub, or Zatoichi movies, along with some other famous ones, like "the blade", have very active swordplay relating heavily on the chinese Kung-Fu styles.

Only, the striking poses do pose some problems. The main target of these fights is to be extremely visual, but dramatically unefficient. What you see in most kung-fu movies is two people waving their swords to and fro, failing to hit eachother by fractions of an inch, each time, and htis during approximately three minutes, without breathing or breaking a sweat.

And everything in this combat system requires asbolute reaction time, that is close to zero. WHile you theoretically could do something like that, like in most 2D fighting games, or even some 3D ones, you would need to know perfectly both your moves and that of the opponent to play a game conceived to be played like a movie fight. WHich adds three layers of difficulty to accomplishing your wish:

First one, the design. The game needs to be thoroughly thought out, and needs to have a combat system that allows such a play.

Second one, the implementation. The game needs to have a system that will allow such features under ANY circumstance a player might find himself in.

Third one, the player himself. In order to play cinema-style, you'll have to have mastered the techniques for about three years, for all the characters, and put the difficulty to max. And when you've done that, there is a small chance that you'll be fighting a difficult fight. Only odds are that you'll be playing it safe, and wait until you find a gap in the defense, which is the sensible thing to do.

As a conclusion, I would say that flashy fights only exist insofar as both fighters do know they are trying to show a flashy fight, and not trying to win. For if such was the case, one or the other, or possibly both, would try to remain alive as long as possible, before trying to kill the other bastard.

High speed fights doesn't necessarily imply low reaction times, if you're willing to live with pre-programmed attack sequences.
It may not be very realistic but at least it still looks cool..

Though I guess it probably works far better for punch-out than a sword fight.

Perhaps I've defined what I'm looking for too vaguely. Prince of Persia, while the swordplay is nice, the reasons I don't consider it fully movie-esque are:

1) It seems like 75% of the time, the prince can just attack and hit his opponent on the first try ( whether it kills him or not ).

2) I saw a pattern that was something like "Slash slash slash ( enemy falls ), sand-stealing dagger stab" quite often.

3) When the enemies do block the princes attacks, the block animation is limited to what appeared to be about 3 positions, and the animation chosen didn't necessarily comply with the general angle of attack.

4) I hardly ever saw the prince block.

5) There wasn't a sense of back and forth between the fighters. For example, in most movies with sword fights, the each fighter kinda has his 'turn' in attacking. Whoever's turn it is, gets to attack from.. well... 1 to N number of attacks, while the other blocks these strikes. N is really determined by when the blocker sees an opening, or when the attacker pace slacken enough that the blocker gains "attacking rights" you might say. Now, this is not always the rule, but there is this sense of back and forth, and that every block and dodge is vital.

I don't know... am I just too picky?

Keep in mind this is just what I observed from 20 odd videos of Prince of Persia ( I didn't watch the acrobatic/platforming type gameplay vids ), so anything I observed could be incorrect, as I've not really played the game.

Anyone else?

Edit:
To Fournicolas:
Thank you for the info. You're right in that the design would be tough. I've been mulling over ideas myself as to a proper design, but there always seems to be a sacrifice somewhere. I did have a design which I think would be feasible, the drawbacks being 1) You and the enemy would be 'locked-on' and your choices of attack would be somewhat limited ( ~ 15-20 defined attacks, with no combos ). But I told a friend and he didn't like the idea, so I scraped it and started thinking some more. That was about February, and I still haven't come up with a solution. Also, I had an idea for countering the need for perfect reaction: at the initiation of an attack, you ( the blocker ) would be able to see the final destination of the attack as it relates to your character body. It's not brilliant, but it could work. You'd still need pretty good reflexes though :)<br><br>Thoughts?

I think Soul Calibur is pretty decent for that, but only if the players actually try to play "cinematically". It's similar to the fighting style in Tekken. Sometimes when playing against someone, it does turn out looking very cinematic, when we both do a lot of blocking and countering, doing a variety of moves and combos. Of course, sometimes, the better strategy it to do something like get your opponent stuck up against a wall and just do the same move over and over and over until they die, in which case it doesn't look very realistic or cinematic at all.

the Prince doesn't need to block :P
but in SoT you can go into and out of a defensive stance real quick to block an incoming attack and then retaliate.
In WW its slower and you can counter attack (when blocking you dont break their current attack, you just stop the damage). SoT you broke the enemies attack pattern so you could strike them whilst their stunned.

The Prince will pretty much pull off the same combo if all you do is rapidly click the attack button. In SoT you can use the direction keys + attack to change the animations (and if theres another target in that direction you attack them instead). In WW you get 2 attack buttons, a block, a throw weapon (or 'steal opponents weapon and dismember them with it' if you dont have a second weapon) and have aload of combos you can pull off with them.

But thats only if you want to keep on the floor to fight enemies ;) you can run/jump over them, bounce off / run up walls, throw enemies into one another, swing around poles all types of crazy shit.

[ADDED:] In WW against the bosses, you'll notice alot of the 'back and forth' effect.

Or try out Savage: The Battle for Newerth - thats only got a 4 hit combo (or 3 if your a bigger unit) + block (leap if you're a beast). Sounds simple right? but try fighting someone who's mastered the melee in that game and prepare to get owned :)