A hypothetical core mechanic a (mathematician) friend came up with many years ago is to use the normal distribution, and have skill ranks equate to standard deviations - so to pass a check of difficulty 2 with relevant skill at level 5, you'd look up the probability on a standard statistical table (or use a computer) and then roll d10s, one for each decimal place in turn until one of the rolls fails to match (or you run out of decimal places in your source material and just roll 50:50 to decide) - if it misses high, you fail; low you succeed.

This system has the advantage that the chance of failure can be made as low as you like by getting additional skill ranks, but once your skill is more than +/- 3 away from the difficulty, it's pretty much irrelevant what your precise skill is. Yes, from time to time, you'll end up rolling a large number of dice, but 90% of checks will resolve on one roll, 99% within two, 99.9% in three or less, and so on - an expected number of rolls of 1.11111 or roughly 10 rolls for every 9 checks.

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Original post by Raghar GURPS rather simplistic rules based on 3d6 rolls and rules for critical hits and misses.[...]

Perhaps if you're talking about 3E core rules, but 4E incorporated a _LOT_ of previously-in-expansion rules into the core rule set, and using all the optional rules in the 2 basic books would give you more realism than any PC game I've heard of. Numbers should probably be tweaked if you're going to use it in a PC game, but the rules themselves would be an excellent base for a detailed, psuedorealistic computer game. Pretty much all P&P RPGs besides GURPS and HERO that I know of would be (and are) crap on the PC, but those two are quite an exception and compbined they could be even better.

Shoo! Empires & Dynasties is a French Game, last edited in 1985. Here is the link to the official site:
http://www.empires-et-dynasties.com/

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Original post by Extrarius Quote: Original post by Raghar GURPS rather simplistic rules based on 3d6 rolls and rules for critical hits and misses.[...] Perhaps if you're talking about 3E core rules, but 4E incorporated a _LOT_ of previously-in-expansion rules into the core rule set, and using all the optional rules in the 2 basic books would give you more realism than any PC game I've heard of. Numbers should probably be tweaked if you're going to use it in a PC game, but the rules themselves would be an excellent base for a detailed, psuedorealistic computer game.

And would you be surprised if I told you that GURPS had been usd in a rather succesful cRPG. Maybe you heard of Fallout ? [grin]

I feel I must correct you both, if I may.
I am only familiar with the Lite version of GURPS rules, although I do possess the whole Transhuman Space collection and the Discworld collection (both standalone GURPS-based RPGs), so I would't pretend to be a specialist of GURPS.
But I think I know why Raghar calls GURPS "simplistic".
It's because there are only 4 Stats... IQ (well... IQ), ST (Strength), DX (Dexterity), HT (Health). Yep, that's it. Not exactly detailed.
And yes, the dice rolling is simplistic, too. Roll 3d6, try to get lower than your skill/attribute. That's it.

But that's in fact only the tip of the iceberg.
Cos you have skills, based on those four stats, tons of them.
And advantages... gazillions of them, with very different effects.
The problem is that each and every advantage/disadvantage will have a particular effect on possibly a stat, given a particular context.
In other words, it's not bloody obvious what's going on.

And don't even get me started with the level of precision that some of the supplements allow. The vehicle creation rules in Transhuman Space are supposed to be "simplified" from the GURPS Vehicles rules... well, they make my head hurt, let's put it that way. The most detailed rules I have seen in a long while, but Good God they are overwhelwing.

Certainly, I think GURPS would fit well as a cRPG system, but if you were to show the stats, you'd have to give the player a bit more than the four basic ones, cos they are not very, uh, descriptive.

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Pretty much all P&P RPGs besides GURPS and HERO that I know of would be (and are) crap on the PC, but those two are quite an exception and compbined they could be even better.

This is a rather rash statement.
I have been an ardent enemy of DnD ever since I started roleplaying 15 years ago, and yet I must say I found the DnD 3.5 rules rather nicely adapted in Neverwinter Nights and KotOR.
Again, I'll be the first to point out systems I feel would be better (and I do so everytime I see someone describing a DnD like system on this forum, which is essentially everyone who hasn't played other games than DnD) than DnD, but to say that aything else than GURPS and HERO (which I haven't read) are crap...

(or maybe you don't know many other systems? Don't you know any of those I have listed above? Most of them are pretty big)

Gurps 4E really has more than 4 stats, but all the 'new' stats are based on the primary 4. For example, you have will and perception based on IQ. Then there is basic speed based on (HT+DX)/4 {don't round} and basic move based on truncated basic speed, then there are hit points and fatigue, and now advantages and disadvantages aren't based on stats nearly as much (better rolls just cost more points per adv/disad in many cases).

And when using combat skills, for example, each type of damage really does different things, like impaling does double damage to flesh (that is, multiply by 2 after armor is taken into account), plus if you want to hit the arm (for ex), there are specific rules saying how hard that is and what the effects are and how much damage it takes to cripple the arm and force it to be usless (possibly permanently) etc.

The rules are _VERY_ detailed now (before, in 3E, all the detail was in the compendiums and other expansion books, but now most of it is in the 2 huge core books).

Also, 4E hasn't been used in a CRPG, which is what I was talking about. I don't remeber which version whatever used, but since 4E came out at the end of last year I doubt it was 4E. 4E and is MUCH better (though it still has some problems, such as magic not changing at all despite being broken in 3E when using the magic expansion books that got collapsed into 4E's single magic book).

Fair enough :-)
I know it couldn't be the 4th edition, since indeed it was released last summer, but still, it's GURPS! (And I doubt they limited themselves at using only the basic rules in Fallout)

As a side note, that's the sort of details I was on about, when I said to other posters to defend their favourite system a bit more verbosely than with statements like "GURPS rulez! DnD suckz!"

Hopefully, other readers can understand all the jargon, now [grin]

You know, I wish I could get my players to try GURPS, if only so I can try Transhuman Space. If only they weren't such beginners...
honestly, I just don't see GURPS as a beginner's game.
My experience is that advantages/disadvantages systems just make the players desperate to find the killer combos that will allow them to create their Munchkin character or, alternatively, make them want to gouge their eyes out because of the number of possibilities and the difficulty to choose... (although the numerous "packages" are a great help)
It's probably the one thing I must concede to a class based system like DnD, it helps beginners focus on their character more easily.

GURPS 4E details a complete system for making class-like 'templates' (either racial or character templates), where you have a base set of abilities required for your 'job' and also many options to customize it. It suggests you never limit players to templates and instead allow them to use them or not, but for beginners it wouldn't be a bad idea to force them to pick one.
I will admit that running a GURPS campaign is a lot more difficult, but that is because it's more realistic so things like taking captives are really a possibility and such possibilities should be explored if you want an interesting game, while in D&D all the detail is about combat so you don't have too many rules for everything else (better in 3.5 but still far from great).

Limiting players to templates might be a good idea for a game, because otherwise they would certainly be overwhelmed if they've never used the system before. It would also prevent 'useless' characters that (for ex) have no combat ability when the game is 90% combat.