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Original post by Telastyn You think DnD has a complex ruleset? Hah!

I probably still know them by hart, but I think they are complex compared to other systems. Rolle Master or DSA would compete though :)

@all: If you have sugestions it would be nice if you could say a bit more than "that is worth checking out". I haven't played/read shadowrun, grups and some others mentioned her. So I can't say much about them.

GURPS rather simplistic rules based on 3d6 rolls and rules for critical hits and misses.
There are incredible high amount of add ons (I have both GURPS and ADnD 3.5 edition backuped on 2-3 CD, and I don't have copy of everything.) Nice if you'd like to play common citizen, bad if you'd like to play different species. The rules for alien generation are feeling slightly too much added to general rules.
Losy if you'd like wizards.


Shadowrun. is based on rolls of multiple dices each attempts to get sucess and rerolling on 6. Amount of sucesses is telling result of the action. Imagine 14 dices rolled at the same time. It is in a cyberpunk world with elves and others...

Vampire. is based on combination of attributes, and multiple 10 sides dices rolls. There are rules for critical failure. So don't expect to be able to reroll that activation of nuclear launch button too much offten. Majority of advantage of it is extensive roleplaying and high athmosphere. The bad thing is it preffers to play persons that have some problems with being vampires, however it's slightly harder to play the opposite. Not surprising because of its rules specialized for playing so called gothic horror. Mystery, phear, acting like an idiot. There are occasional fights with werevolves, and other beings so there is some fun into horror setings.

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Original post by jsgcdude Diablo 2 players could care less about how damage is determined.

Wow, that's not true at all. Like any other game, there is a core of players involved in the detail mechanics, mechanics which 90% of the player base doesn't care to know. But this is the case for any game.

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Original post by Ned_K Wow, that's not true at all. Like any other game, there is a core of players involved in the detail mechanics, mechanics which 90% of the player base doesn't care to know. But this is the case for any game.

Yes, there are always rule laywers ;)

Hello all,

I have been on this forum in and out of it for quite some time but here is what I enjoy about PnP.
I enjoy it becuase you can visualize the surroundings while reading the story for the mission or submission or the actions taking place. I have played DnD several times. Normally as a single player figuring out how the story and characters come together. Plus designing PnP games is also an interesting form of getting away from the world. Plus it keeps you out of trouble. Ask my ex. HAHA! I was mostly working on the PnP most of our marriage. Oh well. But for the last 7 years I have been working on a survival horror PnP board game.
Now that is persistents. I won't run off and tell you all about the details on here because that wasnt the main topic here. So I will show respect.
Take care all.

See you all in the future of video games and PnP games,

BullDog

nefthy :
I have been constantly pointing at obscure RPGs for the last 5 years I've been here, so I am definitely with you on that one [wink].
However I must say the info you are giving here are not very helpful (unless you expect people to google the few things you mention).
A few links would be a minimum, you know?

Also, essential game mechanisms would be useful.
There is a clear difference between the Roll and Keep mechanism of L5R,
the "Roll as many successes as possible" of the World of Darkness or the old Star Wars RPG (IIRC), the "Roll dices and keep the highest, 6's count as +1" of the Silhouette system, the "666 the Number of the Beast" system of In Nomine, or the percentile system of Warhammer...
this is the sort of things that, I believe, could interest a game designer.

I have personally ranted more than once that there are tons of original and interesting systems out there, with their little peculiarities, their advantages and inconveniences. All those systems could be adapted to computers (and in the case of DnD3.5 and GURPS, have been), but time and again, people simply stick to the good old Dungeons and Dragons.

You could mistake this for some sort of proof that DnD is a great system, the _BEST_ system, and that nobody could care less about trying something else, since DnD already does everything so well...

...anyone defending such a view would only be showing how little they really know about games [depressed].

I mean, sure, DnD3.5 is actually quite sweet... compared to the horror of the previous versions, that is. Have you ever read about the Armour Class system under ADnD ? the lower the number, the better, and if it's negative, it's even better [totally]. Then there is the THAC0 (To Hit Armour Class 0). Yeah, great system. And don't get me started on the magic.

Yes, I agree this is sometimes a question of tastes, and everybody have got their own opinion. But don't come and tell me that DnD is the best if you have never tried (or even read about) anything else. It's as stupid as somebody arguing their case against Microsoft with something like "Linux Rulez"...

Anyway.

I am afraid that my personal favourite websites on Roleplaying are in French (since it's my mother language). I would love to find a similar website to the GROG (their "English version" uses something like Babelfish, so it's pretty useless unless you speak French), but I don't know of any (nor do I care much to look for one, since I think the GROG is quite brilliant).
Maybe somebody could give us a link ?


I don't have the time to do a list of all the systems I have played over the years, but I have quite a little collection, so maybe I'll try and post some links later.
For a start check out Warhammer RPG (that's the new version, the rules are different from the original, I'm told),
Call of Chtulhu uses the Chaosium system, which is also used in Stormbringer (the game based in the universe of the novels by Moorcock). That link is to the Quickstart version of the rules, which should give you a good idea of the game mechanisms.
Lately I have got my hands on new things,
Transhuman Space is a "stand alone" RPG based on the GURPS system. Like all the GURPS roleplaying games, it comes with the Lite version of the GURPS rules, which you can also get for free, to see what they are like.
Personally I don't like them much, despite how cool they are... like I said earlier, it's a question of taste. Anyway, it doesn't prevent me from absolutely adoring Transhuman Space as a setting to play in.
Another great RPG that is actually getting me to consider playing with D20 system is Warcraft RPG. Yep, you can play it on paper. You didn't know? Well, now you do, and it kicks some serious ass, IMHO. Up to now they were a DnD "extension", but they are moving to the Open Gaming license, which means that you won't need the Player's Handbook to play anymore. If you don't know what I am on about, well, you probably don't need to think about it...
Another big player those days (and not just cos they are responsible for the Everquest and Warcraft RPGs) is White Wolf and their World of Darkness.
Do check out the Demo if you want to see the new rules!
They haven't really changed the system too much. It's just cleaner and all better organised. Personally I like it. But on the other hand the new setting kinda left me cold [sad], I dont exactly know why. I guess it's because I was so attached to the previous WoD after reading so many of the novels... oh well. We'll see.
Ok, last one for the road: DreamPod 9 are a Canadian developer who have a few nice games (I believe Heavy Gear was made into a computer game, actually). Personally I played Tribe 8 and really like it. Shame my players are such Munchkins [headshake]...
Again, they have a Demo of the game.

And God knows I have played quite a few other games...

I hope you are taking notes, cos there will be a test ! [wink]

Your right actually, wanted to add links and stuff, but I got the feeling nobody was realy interested in this thread... so I didn'd. But if there is interest I could still do it.

LOL, like I said, I have been pointing at PnP RPGs, and other non computing games for the last five years.
Most of the time I think I am preaching in the desert.
Even Wavinator doesn't seem to notice (well, then again, it would probably cost a little fortune to get _all_ the books I mention, but still, that's what the Intertron is for, right?)
Look at Kazgoroth sticky, if that's the extent of what people know of board games, it's no wonder that the game industry is doomed to become as shitty and uncreative as Hollywood... [headshake]

I am not sure why nobody seems to care. I mean, it's the Game Design forum, right?
Ah well, as you Americans would say Luke 23:34 [razz]

You wanna talk about complex PnP games...

look into Aria: Canticle of the Monomyth.

Published by Last Unicorn Games.

That will make your head swim.


As for the earlier posts about Shadowrun, 4th Edition is comming out in a couple of months with a lot of streamlined core rule changes.

well, if you are gonna post about an obscure RPG, like I said earlier, a bit of linkification could help, eh?
No offense, but it doesn't really seem all that exciting. A classic D10 syste, no universe to play in. A "Do it everything yourself" game... o_O
Maybe you could argue why anyone should bother looking it up?

Ah yeah, and a good site about roleplaying games in English.
I have seen it before, but like I said above, I prefer the GROG I mentioned previously. Still, at least now you guys have no excuses to do a bit of research.