I've had GPO for quite some time now, yet I've never tried to heavily ochestrate something. I've just used it for little 4 instrument sonatas, and used various instruments in techno songs. Hehe. I've made an orchestra template in FL Studio containing just about every instrument in GPO (takes up every bit of my GB of RAM). I can't get a good sound out of it! I don't know why. I want results like this. The strings never sound good. I do turn up the mod wheels to the max, yet I can't get a good string hit. I can actually say I have no idea how to get a good sound out of it. I can't even get a good sound out of the woodwinds either. Any tips anyone could give me would be appreciated. I've searched for GPO tips, tricks, and templates, and I've found nothing. I haven't found anything useful, perhaps because it's kind of an abstract and vague problem. Who knows. Maybe it's just an error in my orchestration, in which case I have much learning to do. :) Vince R.

It's likely that your orchestration and use of the tools available to you is the source of your problem. For example, you say you turn the mod wheels to max, expecting good results - but do you actually know what you're doing when you do that?

As a good rule of thumb, you should try to avoid adjusting any setting if you don't actually have an idea of what it does, and what you're trying to achieve by adjusting it. Look up the documentation available, and do some research into commonly used techniques;
Learn what all the little dials and toggle options are for.
Learn what some of the effects that are available to you do, and how to set the options on them to get the effect you desire.
Practice applying different settings and effects, and listen to what actually happens.

It takes a while to get the hang of it, and you won't get there overnight (as cliché as that is), but if you stick at it, you'll find that your work should begin to improve reasonably quickly.


Select the correct instruments for the piece you're writing - don't jamb one of everything in just because you can - think about what you actually need to include to achieve the sound you're after, and add them in.

When applying effects or adjusting settings, first think about what you want to achieve. Consider the effects and options available, and pick the one you think is most suited to the task. Never apply more effects that you need to, and most of the time, apply only one at a time and adjust it as desired before beginning work on the next one.


You'll probably be very interested in this thread (it's a sticky in this forum btw), it contains some excellent advice on improving the overall sound and quality of your pieces. Hope all that helps you out. [smile]

If you post samples of your work I can give you feedback on what you can do to improve your orchestrations. In the mean time, one of the most important considerations is the use of volume and dynamics, which must be specially catered to the samples, as traditional markings (forte and piano) do not translate well in digital music.

The demo you posted sounds like the composer has a fairly decent understanding of orchestration and instrumentation in a film score-like idiom. If that's the style you plan on emulating, it pays off to have a good understanding of orchestrations from various film scores.

There are no “tricks or templates” when it comes to orchestral-writing (unless you’re Media Ventures), it’s actually something you can take classes in to get really good at. Imagine trying to do complex math without a solid understanding of the basics.

Quote: Original post by Sil
There are no “tricks or templates” when it comes to orchestral-writing (unless you’re Media Ventures), it’s actually something you can take classes in to get really good at.

Think anyone could post articles here on that sort of thing? (Or at least the basics.)

Quote: Original post by Kylotan
Think anyone could post articles here on that sort of thing? (Or at least the basics.)

You mean like some articles covering some basic theory, and it's application in orchestration?

Quote:
It's likely that your orchestration and use of the tools available to you is the source of your problem. For example, you say you turn the mod wheels to max, expecting good results - but do you actually know what you're doing when you do that?

As a good rule of thumb, you should try to avoid adjusting any setting if you don't actually have an idea of what it does, and what you're trying to achieve by adjusting it. Look up the documentation available, and do some research into commonly used techniques;
Learn what all the little dials and toggle options are for.
Learn what some of the effects that are available to you do, and how to set the options on them to get the effect you desire.
Practice applying different settings and effects, and listen to what actually happens.

Yes I'm aware of what the modulation wheel means and does. And yes I have tried effects. I'm pretty sure it's not the effects. And I'm kind of sure it's not my orchestration. I've done orchestration in MIDI that sounds better than this, so if it is really my fault, it would at least sound close to okay. =/

Quote:

Select the correct instruments for the piece you're writing - don't jamb one of everything in just because you can - think about what you actually need to include to achieve the sound you're after, and add them in.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant to say that I made a template for an orchestra. It's a pain in the ass to select instruments. So I just made one big thing so I could use it for just about anything.

Quote:

When applying effects or adjusting settings, first think about what you want to achieve. Consider the effects and options available, and pick the one you think is most suited to the task. Never apply more effects that you need to, and most of the time, apply only one at a time and adjust it as desired before beginning work on the next one.

Yeah.

Quote:
You'll probably be very interested in this thread (it's a sticky in this forum btw), it contains some excellent advice on improving the overall sound and quality of your pieces. Hope all that helps you out.

Yeah I have read that. That's not really the problem. I guess I should've showed you a sample or something. It's not really clipping, or reverb I'm having trouble with. I'll have to make a demo or something to show you what I mean. Thanks though.

Quote:

There are no “tricks or templates” when it comes to orchestral-writing (unless you’re Media Ventures), it’s actually something you can take classes in to get really good at. Imagine trying to do complex math without a solid understanding of the basics.

I meant to say that I searched for GPO tips and tricks. But now that you mention it I should look at some orchestration articles just to make sure it's not my fault.

Quote:

Think anyone could post articles here on that sort of thing? (Or at least the basics.)

Yes.

Quote:
You mean like some articles covering some basic theory, and it's application in orchestration?

Yes. It is kind of a specific area to research. It would take someone (well me anyway =/ ) an hour or two to find something on it. If someone already knows link to an article like that, please save me some time.


Thanks for the help,
Vince

Quote: Original post by Kazgoroth

Quote: Original post by Kylotan
Think anyone could post articles here on that sort of thing? (Or at least the basics.)

You mean like some articles covering some basic theory, and it's application in orchestration?

Sure. Although 'theory' is often too narrow a term. I don't just mean teaching people what (for example) an interrupted cadence is (and then leaving them wondering why they need to know that), but giving some concrete examples along with everything else you need to know to get started (eg. which instruments to use).

Like programming, there is a lot of theory involved in orchestration, but it’s not necessarily "music theory" per se. There is a lot of material that can be covered without the use of examples; just musings on what could be accomplished given the proper tools. One of those tools is music theory (counterpoint, analysis, etc.), another is being able to play an instrument, and another is originality. A good article on orchestration wouldn’t waste time teaching those things.

Quote: Original post by Kylotan
Sure. Although 'theory' is often too narrow a term. I don't just mean teaching people what (for example) an interrupted cadence is (and then leaving them wondering why they need to know that), but giving some concrete examples along with everything else you need to know to get started (eg. which instruments to use).

Hrm, I'm not sure how well an article (or series of articles more likely, considering the breadth of material required) would actually be able to teach anyone good orchestration, and I certainly don't know of any existing tutorials, but I'll see if I can start writing something up on the weekend if I have some free time - if it turns out any good I'll see about getting some input from everyone else to polish it up into something useful.

Anyone know of any existing resources on the subject?

Quote: Original post by Kazgoroth
Hrm, I'm not sure how well an article (or series of articles more likely, considering the breadth of material required) would actually be able to teach anyone good orchestration, and I certainly don't know of any existing tutorials, but I'll see if I can start writing something up on the weekend if I have some free time - if it turns out any good I'll see about getting some input from everyone else to polish it up into something useful.

Anyone know of any existing resources on the subject?

Computer Music has been running a series on orchestration for a while - I have an issue with a pretty big tutorial on "MIDI orchestra" - it's quite good. It has sampler tips, like when to mess with the attack, and how to use Legato settings.

There's also this book The Guide to MIDI orchestration. I haven't seen it in person, but it's supposed to be quite popular, so it's probably not bad.