First of all that's a good article. I saw some screenshots of GPO in there. This will be usefull. Thanks for posting it.


Another way people learn is simply by listening and observing other orchestrations. It's like writing a book. You can't write a good one if you've never read any good ones. You can pick up a lot of techniques just by listening, sometimes even subconsciously. You don't always have to be listening really carefully and analyzing it critically.

This is kind of why I was a little doubtful that it was my fault. I've listened to many orchestrations in the form of symphonies and film scores. I can improvise a musical ochestrations in my head, and they sound pretty good (to me at least =/). Many people can do this, even those who aren't really composers. They just don't know how to turn their imagination into a reality.

Anyway the point of that is, I think it's easier than we all think it is. I think what I'm screwing up with is the attack of the instruments. I can't get a good, staccato hit out of the strings. This is my plight.


I'll continue to research it and experiment. If I come to any good conclusions I'll post it here. Thanks for the help

Vince

Quote: Original post by Dr Mean
It's like writing a book. You can't write a good one if you've never read any good ones.

By that logic, there aren't, never have been, and never will be any good books. Think about it.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not an absolute - while it can certainly help to listen to other music for inspiration, and to see how it's put together, it's by no means a requirement.

Yes it is necessary. Imagine a group of children that land on an island at a young age. They have no contact with the outside world. They develop a society of their own, and discover music. What will be the way they do it? Most likely we wouldn't like it.


Society likes certain styles of music. Certain things are unacceptable. You need to listen to some music, to know how it's done.


The more you listen, the more you pick up. I highly recommend it. I think it is a neccesity.


Wish I could make a more neat, and thorough post. I'm at school and only had 3 minnutes to type this up.



Vince R.

Quote: Original post by Dr Mean
Society likes certain styles of music. Certain things are unacceptable. You need to listen to some music, to know how it's done.

Someone had to write the first piece in each style our society currently appreciates, and it's likely that having extensively heard prior styles offered them little assistance in this. No argument that it's extremely helpful to listen to a broad range of music from the genre/style you wish to emulate, but it's definately not an absolute neccesity unless you're trying to capture a very similar sound and feel to an existing piece.

Sound knowledge of theory if applied properly, along with any special 'rules' of the particular style in question will produce good quality music. Listening to music in a certain style is the easiest way to learn how to write music in that style - it isn't the only way.

For example, consider 'blues' music. It has certain characteristics that make it blues, and if you don't have these characteristics in your music, you'll be unable to write it. You can very easily pick up these characteristics by listening to blues - but you could also simply look at a written set of 'rules' (perhaps 'guidelines' would be more appropriate) for blues, and you'll still be able to get results. A list of appropriate instrumentation, common tempos, which chords are normally used and in what sequence, the prevailing scales of the style. The second option certainly takes a lot more musical experience and training though, along with an excellent knowledge of theory and how to apply it, but it does work.


That being said, I can't recommend enough listening to a broad range of music, especially in the chosen target genre - for most people, this will be vastly easier to following a set of rules, and they'll more easily pick up subtle details.

You're right, I didn't think of written rules. Guess I thought of it as off topic. You can't compose a genre without knowing what to do. That would make it a genre of its own. Genres are defined.

This is another alternative; rules. However like you said, it's much easier to learn a genre by listening to it. Though if you're conrete sequential enough, rules might be a benefit to you. Personally I think you tend to get a deeper understanding of a genre just by listening to it.


Anyway, yeah....



Vince

Dr. Mean,

I actually like your piece, and think that you have captured and emulated some of the important emotional aspects of an orchestra. I also have GPO and have had a tough time achieving an overall "good" sound. To me, some of the instruments sound a bit synthesized. I guess it is the old saying "you get what you pay for". Spend a few thousand dollars and purchase VSL, trust me, your piece will soar.

Good luck,

GameGenie

Yeah I guess it's true. If I wanted to fork out $1000, I could've bought that professional version of GPO. I too think that the horns don't sound too good, especially as an ensemble. Wind instruments are okay, and the strings are the best.


Unfortunately, I didn't write that piece. It's such a good piece; I wish I did. It covers such a range of moods. It's really epic. I don't know if that guy used GPO to make that, or the professional version. But it sure was a pretty good rendering.

Quote: Original post by Dr Mean
and the strings are the best.

Judging from what I heard in that piece, I'll have to disagree. The trills, tremolo and low-range staccatos sound okay, similar to that in the now outdated Miroslav library. But the legato and arco samples heard at 1:44, 2:59, 4:00, etc. sound horrible. Usually that’s a given since every library I’ve heard has yet to capture the melodic sound of a string section. My advice is to not be lured in by the effects, or else that’s all you’ll be using.

However, if you are looking for an all in one type library, this one seems like a good choice.

No the strings pretty much are the best (besides percussion, keyboards, and harps). If you think that the strings are bad, then you'll only think brass is worse. There are only a few good woodwinds (flute solo, oboe, and english horns are okay).


Really what I'm not happy with are the trumpets, trombones, and flute ensembles. But it was the only thing I could afford. =/

If I had the money, I'd buy the best Garritan library. I'd also buy Voices of the Appocalypse.

Unfortunately, I don't have the money, and I probably never will.


Vince

Hi, I´m a fellow GPO user.

First, if you don´t have the update, get it. It´s great.

If you haven´t read the GPO tutorials on garritan.com, you should do that.

1. Make sure you are sending the music to reverb before it is being output. The sounds in GPO are recorded dry. This is deliberate. However, it means that if you don´t apply reverb, your samples will sound HORRENDOUS. By default, FL will NOT apply reverb to them. The bundled Garritan Ambience is decent. Although by no means excellent, it will give you decent reverb (it can be run as an audio effect in any program that can run VST audio effects).

If you want a strong string hit, use the aggressive string patches from the update with the VELOCITY up, Moving up the modwheel changes the volume, velocity changes the aggressiveness.

To make legato string passages, you need to set CC64 all the way up during the passage and overlap the notes a bit.

The first thing with brass - you MUST layer lots of instruments. If you try to get a good brass section using just the section instruments it will sound synthy, dry, and empty. You need to load at least 3 or 4 patches for each instrument you want to have a full sound for. Each track can just be copied from the other, but be modified slightly for more variation. I often use 8 patches for a french horn section - 6 players plus the f overlay and ff overlay. The same goes for string sections, but it´s not as essential.

I´m not an expert, but I´m happy to post answers to any specific questions, or to listen to a sample of yours if you have one.