interesting one. I don't know where or if it can happen in real life, for biological reasons (but once again, if there is magic around, maybe biology can go and have a beer for a while...) but it sounds nice...

Hmm... so if the dragon species is evolving that conception must be intentional, and males and females become equal and interchangeable in the process of conception as magical methods replace biological methods, and if all evolution is supposed to be happening to make the dragons get closer to being godlike... why would these two particular changes be important steps in that evolution? What does this say about the nature of that evolution?

I suppose it means that it means that, for quite a while, the dragons have been using magic to sustain themselves, and have been altered by it. Maybe the reason of the decline in birthrate is the very USE of magic on a daily basis. Maybe "nowadays", most of what they do, they do through magic. In fact, magic has taken over the natural cycles and altered biology.

Which means that, unvoluntarily, those four young ones have hit the landmark, by doing something so utterly beyond preconceptions, and so close to their "real" nature, that they have succeeded in taking a step forward, long before any of the rest of the dragons have realized there was a path there.

Of course, this is a nice explanation once you know what has been happening. But in the eye of the storm they will undergo, it will mean nothing, apart from that they destroyed the established order, and should be destroyed, along with their " disguting created thing". Mentalities don't change overnight. Even in a magic saturated specie as dragons.

This implies that whatever they achieve, they are doomed to failure. And it fails completely to satisfy your needs and desires. Maybe we can cut the lifelong changes and say they are accepted right away?

Maybe the one who complains about such a state of things is the one who's got an hear in the most powerful council, and decides to prove their false pretenses by putting them in trial before the very council, and forcing them to perform the ritual they claim they have accomplished, in order to prove they are the ones who stole the egg that has gone missing? And asked to do it another time, they actually lay a second egg through magic? This being seen as extremely curious is taken with extreme care, and they are secluded from the rest of the trial for a while, until the eggs hatch, are seen viable, and the "parents" are recognized as saviors of the dragons race?

But this implies some changes in your story.

For a start, the rythm is changed, because the first part must end with the first egg being laid, the second part starts with the group being found out, but ends with the second egg being laid, and the third part, where the whole world accepts them as a parental group, ends when the second egg hatches.

So this means that your premise was wrong, because your story has two different goals. From the beginning to end of part one, the main goal is to become a valid family, and then, this very goal is blended into surviving the trial. You can add as much sex, love, romance and betrayal as you want, but in the end, this is what it should look like, if you decide to go that route.

Only my opinion there, of course...

I don't think that magically creating an egg would be seen as destroying the established order - they didn't make a monster, they made a baby. If there's one thing dragons society would never want to destroy, it's a baby. Everybody who's been having problems with infertility will beg to be taught the spell and be grateful the characters discovered/created it. There will be a minor baby boom but society and the eonomy won't collapse or anything. I don't have to show a sceond egg hatching, I could show some barren neighboring clan bursting with hope, preparing to do the ritual, and since the readers already know it will work I don't have to show it happening, I can just let them imagine that this is the start of a beautiful future. :)

I at one point had considered having a trial in the plot (although I was originally thinking it would be in act II, to have Ravennin disinherited for sleeping with Attranath), but I think it wouldn't fit - the story is about instinct, magic, love, and understanding, which is in a totally different realm from law and judgement. Plus a trial would be a different type of action from the rest of the book, which would make it feel out of place I think. And structurally, I don't think it's necessary in act 3 - the fact that the nesting room creation ritual works even though performed by a male, and not only works but works so well they get an egg out of the process, serves the function of the magic/evolutionary instinct judging them and stamping them with its seal of approval, it would be redundant to go through the process again with a lower authority (jury of mortal dragons).

In fact, I did not think of it as showing the moral validity of it before a jury of peers, I thought of it as saving their necks. But anyway.

I thought in fact that the very fact of four males showing with an egg, even if they pretended it hapened through magic would be highly suspicious, which is why I thought of someone immediately being jealous or having reasons to have them thrown out, and using the trick of having them perform it again in order to prove his case. Only they really did it, and can do it again, at will. Which puts the jealous at odds, because he not only made false pretenses against them, but against them who incidently happen to be the saviors of Dragonkind, putting him in an extremely uncomfortable seat.

But the rest can happen just your way.

So... The climax of the book is the discovery/invention of a magical method or reproduction to replace the failing and obsolete biological method of reproduction. Attranath is the key player, and the key ability which enables him to create the spell is his true and deep love for his other family members. Why is that? What does love (in the sense of truly respecting and liking someone else) have to do with fertility? Why (in this fantasy universe) should love be a necessary prerequisite for conceiving a child, what does that imply about the philosophy of this universe?

Finally had some thought about what love has to do with fertility.

Fertility is a purely biological thing. It is associated with the animal side of people, and the mechanical nature of the universe. Love, OTOH, is a purely mental thing, associated with the soul and therefore magic. (Magic being the godlike soul exerting power over the physical world.) So the struggle of biological fertility vs. love-based deliberate magical conception is an expression of the larger dysphoria between the godlike soul of man and the mechanistic, physical world the soul is trapped in. This corresponds to the serpent-god being caught in a half-awake state as it tries to awaken from its long rest - the godlike mind has awaken but is still trapped in the animal body. (Magic began when the godlike soul started to awaken, thus marking the beginning of the dragon race, as opposed to their totemic animal ancestors, who could not do magic.)

Homosexuality is a great test case for a battle between love and biology, because of course homosexual relationships are not normally fertile, and choosing to live as an exclusive homosexual appears at first glance to go hand-in-hand with deciding against parenthood. But, that's only if you're trapped in looking at things from the animal perspective. With sufficiently advanced technology, aka magic, there's no reason parenthood has to have anything to do with gender. And if they are not inherently linked, it becomes possible to consider that maybe they shouldn't be linked.

I can't belive this is up to 7 pages! GO SNS!

Erm, ok. I'm not sure that the direction this thread has gone benefits anyone other than me, but hey, I'll always accept cheering. [wink]

I think it sounds like an idea I had some pages ago... Although better expressed. In my opinion, definitely the way to go...