I've tossed this idea around a few times before, but seeing as how i'm bored, and am back from a two month cruise out to sea (damn navy) I figure I'll stretch my writing skills out and try to condense an idea I've been playing around with in my head for a good couple of years. I'm sitting here fleshing out ideas that didn't really work well with the rest of the game the last time I wrote it. The main questions I have for the board is... 1. Does the concept sound fun? 2. What area do you like/dislike? 3. What area would you like more details on? The idea of this game is first and formost a Space Based FPS in the classic sense of Wing Commander, Xwing v. Tie Fighter, etc. That we all used to know and love. Tossed into the mix is just a dash of RTS element management and build status. Guilds start out with just the ability to use weak ships, but as they grow and gather resources they build bigger and better empires. Bigger empires means bigger weakpoints, and guild leaders will have to be on thier toes to keep manage thier people and thier resources to keep growing thier empire. -Instead of choosing sides players form and join guilds (player guilds) and the guilds run the game. The idea here is to give players utmost control of the game world as in the MMO "Shadowbane." ---The biggest problem with this idea so far is for starting players, and when the game is fresh and letting people get started. -The game provides a small snub fighter for free to all players, anything better must be purchased using guild resources. This is where I have a unique system concept in mind. -Resources are used to build better fighters, mine fields, sentry guns, repair facilities, launching pads, storage tanks, Supply ships, torpedo boats, and of course "CAPITAL SHIPS" which are manned by large crews of players requireing good teamwork to use effectively. -Resources are of a different variety than your average RTS. Instead of having 5 or 6 different resources, I drop the Number of resources down to about two or three. However, scattered throughout the game world are different levels of those two or three resources. ---A resource of a certain level can either act as multiple units of lower levels, or be used as a single unit to give a stat boost to the ship. I.E. I can use Resource A5 as 5 units or resource A1, or I can use it as one unit, and give a +3 bonus to armor... -Yes there is "Crafting" in the game, but the concept is not designed to be a game in and of itself. You start off with a certain number of premade designs, load up the specific weapons/sensors you want on it. Then you begin to assign resources to it. You decide where to put the different resources, and placement of higher level resources affects how thier bonuses will be used. I.E. Placing a high level system on the wings might improve manueverability, while placing it on the engines gives more power. -Transport in the game is done via mulitple types. --Manuevering speed (slow, fine toon movement such as combat, crowded areas, docking etc) --Travel speed (faster than Manuevering, used for INTRA Zone point a to point b flying) --Jump Gates (used for intra zone travel, set entry and exit points) --Worm holes (hidden warps, most of the time are randomly generated by the game with random entry/exit points, though rumors exist of technologies that can stabalize a wormhole) --Jump Drives (Carried only on capital ships) -Combat should be fast paced and exciting. There will not be multiple targeting points on ships with the exception of Captial ships. No gunning out someones engines here. -The Game should be designed so that players NEED to use cargo ships to keep there resources up to a constant pace. I believe the way to do this is to keep ship building facilities limited to about one for every 3-4 "worlds" controled. Also the game uses a 2 cargo ship system. A large frieghter that is able to dock at the storage bins, and is capable of using the warp-gates. And a smaller cargo ship that can only travel through warp-gates when empty. This smaller ship is allowed to dock at storage facilities AND outposts that require supplies. ---This re-inforces the concept that A very powerful guild with lots of systems will be very hard to defend and keep the possibility of an uber guild controling the entire game. [Edited by - robert4818 on April 16, 2005 7:26:18 AM]

Wow. This is a huge undertaking. I think it will be nearly impossible to balance such a game, because there's such a lack of precedent. For one thing, the emphasis on teamwork will lead to you being disappointed by players. Generally speaking, if players can break your game, they will.

It's hard enough to get my teammates to guard our nodes in UT2004's onslaught mode, instead of just rushing toward something they can blow up. If you are going to seriously depend on them to guard convoys (especially if convoys usually DON'T get attacked), you're going to be in trouble. Heck, you're in the Navy. You know that in order for a large organization to operate, a huge portion of its staff has to be doing boring, crappy duty most of the time. Guild leaders would have such an absurd problem with desertion, discipline and absenteeism (can't be online all the time, after all) that it would be pathetic.

If you could automate the bureaucracy, and just let players have some stick time blowing things up, you'd be okay. How about this:

All the ships are drones. Players get chits whenever they earn resources for the guild, and they can use these chits as currency to either order up custom ships or gain access to the default ships that are being produced all the time. If you get a big load of A5 into the cargo bay, you get creditted with chits. If you blow up some guild property via pilot error or friendly fire, you are debitted chits. All flying is done remotely from the capital ship.

So, the players log on and hang out in the pilots' lounge. If they want to fly, then they pool their chits to get enough to "buy" a small transport and some basic fighters. They set out toward the local mineral-rich asteroid, and hope to get back, turn a profit, and maybe take out some probes from the Generic Enemy that Everybody Fights. All is going according to plan. They get to the asteroid, harvest some mins, and are on their way back when disaster strikes. Three heavy fighters from a rival guild have decided that those hard-earned minerals look pretty good, and have decided to hijack the transport. The "good guys" send an alert back to the mothership requesting reinforcements, and engage their daunting opponents.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, three other players are chilling out when the board lights up with an emergence distress call. They check their chits, decide that they can afford to go help, and respond with an offer of assistance, with the standard 50% cut of the profits. It's a deal, they set out. They reach the fight, win the day, escort the transport home, and then split whatever money is left after repairs and such are covered. Then it's off to the design bay to see if they have enough left to get that custom Escort Fighter they've been designing built at last. If so, they get it built and put in their hangar, for cautious use at a later time.

Throw in a zero-consequences "simulator mode", and you've got a game. All the logistics, none of the macromanagement or serious interdependence, and players can either work toward the good of the guild (raiding missions, diligent escort work, etc.) or they can just get their jollies shooting up space (simulator, drone-smashing, etc.), and the infrastructure of the game isn't harmed by their shenanigans. I recommend some kind of evaluation system, so that you know who's a newb, who's a griefer and who's a stand-up guy when it comes time to ask for help or decide on a fee.

I definately agree it would be a balance issue. But one thing I've noticed is when you give them structure, players will LEARN to work together. In quick games like UT I've noticed its every man for himself, but teamwork tends to come out in the MMO realm. And those guilds that learn to work together to have a proper teamwork will be the ones that get good empires. Look at outfits in Planetside, and the successful guilds in shadowbane. I do expect that the game will have growing pains as everyone learns the system.

The emphasis on the game itself IS the wing commander type of playing, but the emphasis on discussion has to focus on the RTS part of the game that guild leaders will face due to the unique nature of that part of the game for the genre. Everyone who's played wing commander, star/free lancer, xwing series etc understands the concept of that part of the game, and I would like that part to remain pretty standard. Its the rest of the game I'd like to toss out.

As for the convoys I have thoughts of the convoy's being stealable, where the other team can steal your cargo/transport ships and thier resources. I really do not mind automating the cargo ships, but I would not want to automate the escorts.