quote:
The best example of that would be the later Dark Age : Feudal Lords. That used dices for combat resolution. I mainly adored the game for the cynical universe and the amount of geniuses artists. Unfortunately, that game was published by FRPG that decided to stop all this...
Unlike a lot of other game were fights are everything, this game was quite simple but yet enjoyable, thanks to the little randomness in fights.

Was that the game where you would contruct the pyramids that acted as portals to other worlds? I remember one like that where the art word was all very 3D looking.

quote:
Waddaya mean marking cards ?

I had 2 idea''s for marking cards:
1. Having cards expire after so many uses.
- More common cards would contain a place (box on the card) that has to be marked each time it is used. Less common cards would not.
2. Some cards have different uses.
- Some cards can be used for different things. The player decided what the cards can be use for my marking a specified box. eg. The Tital IV missle can be used for carring warheads (aggressive) or it can be used for carring parts that make up a space station or what not. The player chooses by marking 1 of 2 boxes.

I''m trying to work out other uses for marking cards like combination privlages, suprise attacks or something. Suprise attacks could be used only when it time for the card to be marked for the first time. After that they become an ordinary card.

An add-on to having cards expire - This option could be up to the player. A card could be used over and over without having to be marked but if they wanted to boost the power of the card artifically then they would have to mark it. Or if they wanted to use a very special ability of a card they may have to mark it then go get another one. This would probably be a better option instead of having to mark a card just so you can use it.

I can hear the criticisms coming in already. Ok, let''em roll


One more time for the dumbies
ar+gu+ment n. A discussion in which reasons are put forward in support of and against a proposition, proposal, or case; debate.

Hehehehehehe

Guess what I am gonna say.
OK, actually, there is no real criticism, you are coming up with ideas that the guys at WotC came up with after 7 years...
One thing you have to know is that Magic uses tons and tons of markers to show various effects.

The "Fading" ability designate a card (usually creature) that gets an amount of markers when she comes in play, and then loses a counter every turn. When there are no counters left, the creatures is removed.

I just witnessed those weird double-cards that actually contain the text for two cards, not just one. You choose which one you wanna use.

Some cards have a "kicker" cost. If you pay an extra bit, the card comes in play with something more. Like increased power, or a special ability.

Some cards have an upkeep cost. Each turn, that cost must be paid, whatever that is, or the card is destroyed. The unfamous Lord of the Pit requires a creature to be sacrified every turn ...
Some cards must satisfy condition to stay in play : "if you have any creature of power 2 or less, destroy Endangered Armodon"

"Buyback" is a optional cost that, if paid, will allow the player to put the card back in his hand, rather than discard it.

My favorite of all time is "phasing". If a card is "phased out", it''s considered not in play, like non existing at all.

Some cards will arrive in play with different abilities depending on what you pay. I remember one where you have to choose between creating 3 small creature, or a big one.

etc etc etc...

The most constructive thing you could do to design a good card carm would be to seriously look at, analyze, and play Magic: the Gathering.


Even you game isn''t remotely similar to Magic, you would benefit from learning it. A lot of your ideas are similar or already used in Magic, and learning Magic would help you avoid accidentaly "ripping off" of Magic and would give you loads of ideas.


That aside, my favorite aspect of card games like Magic is deffinately the process of constructing my playing deck. When I first started playing (with two starter decks and a booster pack) I could beat my friend who had thousands of cards because I was better at balancing mana and attack cards, little monsters and big monsters. To me, the entire game was making a balanced and well integrated deck to play with. It really p''d me off when Wizards of the Coast started selling pre-made decks.


The second greatest thing about Magic and like games is the "Pokemon Effect". Pokemon is a great game because it plays on a kids want to "catch them all". To collect, to get more. If you made a card game, it would make your game better if you somehow limited what cards people got and slowly gave them more cards over time. This would be hard to impliment on PC''s because people could easily crack or copy cards somehow, but it could be done to some degree.


I have a few ideas on limiting cards, and giving people new ones over time, but my eyes are going blurry from the screen right now. I''ll post these ideas later.


-Jason

Yeah, i think i will definity go and get Mtg, i learnt a lot from playing one card game it makes sence that i would benefit from playing more.

quote: By ahw
My favorite of all time is "phasing". If a card is "phased out", it''s considered not in play, like non existing at all.

That sounds similar in a way to the New World Order cards that were in Illuminati. Its a good idea to have some cards that can affect everyone sometimes in different ways.

quote: By dymetrix
That aside, my favorite aspect of card games like Magic is deffinately the process of constructing my playing deck

That''s very interesting. There appears to be two sides to many games. 1. The skill in using the game system and 2. The ability to plan and strategize using the game system. Not all games have them but a lot do.




One more time for the dumbies
ar+gu+ment n. A discussion in which reasons are put forward in support of and against a proposition, proposal, or case; debate.

Just browsing through the old topics looking for some content I could use for a group essay I have to do and decided I could contribute something to this... (And dig up something really old too, judging by the last post date)

I find the major problem with most card games these days - Magic, Battletech, Pokemon especially - is the need to have at least one third of the deck resource cards. It means that, instead of drawing a new and exciting card every turn, you''ve got roughly a 33% chance of drawing a dull and boring (yet essential) card. Battletech did slightly better with the draw two cards every turn thing, but still it needed resource cards.

Games like Illuminati, Star Wars, Dune, and Dragonball Z need no resource cards (Not completely sure about Dune, only read the rulebook for that one). Dragonball Z piled on top of this a very easy to learn game, making it a HUGE hit with just about everyone (I learnt to play it after watching one game, and no reading of the rulebook). Couple it to a TV show and it''s almost illegal... (Not that the show is much more than assorted grunts, groans and yells)

The card game I am creating with an artist friend tries to do this, without the TV show though.

I know you''ve long forgotten this, but maybe it''ll help someone at some point.

Oh yeah - they should NEVER have targetted a card game to an audience as young as they did with Pokemon, kids just don''t have the ethics us older and smarter (quit sniggering! ) people do.

Faradhi Sobriet-Treves
Press to test... *click* Release to detonate...

quote: Oh yeah - they should NEVER have targetted a card game to an audience as young as they did with Pokemon, kids just don''t have the ethics us older and smarter (quit sniggering! ) people do.

But they''ve got the imagination and free minds. Lets not also forget that games were the original form of education according to palentology. I can''t see the reason why you made that point anyhow although i did find the other stuff quite interesting.

I haven''t played as many card games as you Faradhi but so i''m not quite sure what you meant by boring cards. Any chance of an elaboration there?

A designer doesnt need to know everything about code, they just have to have an appreciation for its limitations and how those limitations affect features they may wish to include in their design. - Drew

Well, just like in a good strategy game, a lot of card games consist of resources, and other cards to be put in play with those resources.

In a game like Magic the Gathering, you need Mana to cast spells. Spells allow you to have creatures in play to attack your opponent, or to cast other spells with various effects, to modify the game, creatures, etc...
To produce mana, the basic resource is lands.
Then some creatures produce mana (very few though), some artifacts too. The reason not only lands can produce mana is that you can only play ONE land per turn. HAving other things that lands to produce mana allows one to take a decisive advantage on the game, as it allows to cast bigger spells earlier.

To take an example, one land allows me to play a 1 mana creature, which generally will do 1 point of damage to my opponent.
Now if I get a really lucky hand, I could get an artifact that costs nothing to cast and produce three mana of any color (oh yeah, I wont start to talk about colours of mana, but let''s say it does add a lot to the way you design a deck to play).
That plus the one land per turn if I have one in my hand means that one my first turn I could cast a much bigger creature (typically, one that inflicts 3 points of damage).

The thing about land, so, is that you need it big time, but after a while you would like to have something to do with it.
I spent a game yesterday where all I was drawing was Forests (a land that gives me green Mana) when all I was asking for was one little Island (to produce blue Mana). And I kept drawing lands when I already had in play all the mana I needed. Instead of drawing lands, I would have been much better off drawing creatures to attack my opponent with. Instead, I was sitting there with my useless blue cards in hand (couldnt play any of them), and my tons of green mana in game that I couldnt use to their best (I didnt have any massive creature to play in my hands).

Rather than having this kind of frustrating situation where you get resources when you dont need them, spells when you need resources, and so on ... it would be nice to be able to choose between drawing more resources, or drawing more utilities.

One game that does that extremely well is Legend Of the Five Rings (by Wizards of the Coast). You get to reveal four "resources" cards every turn, and draw one "special" card into your hand (those are cards that change the course of events, like spells, battle grounds to change the course of battles, and other things to spice up the game). If you have enough resources, you could play the four cards. Otherwise, you can decide to play the ones that suit best the current situation. Much more interesting and strategic than Magic...

anyway, does that make it any cleare Paul ?

By the way, there is an excellent software that allows people to play Magic online, it''s called Apprentice.
If you know the game a bit, it''s damn cool to play against other people, try out decks, etc.
It wont teach you the game, though, as it is made for people who already know it and simply want to play it online. Though I am sure a nice person would be able to teach a beginner.

youpla :-P


Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

It sure does, thank you ahw. It makes me wonder if there is something other than having a card game made up of decks, cards inhand, and displayed cards. One of the idea''s that went through my head when working on a card game was having the cards already placed out like a board but turned up side down so you can''t see them. Each of which making up minidecks. Hmmm, i''m babbling now.

It sounds like Legend of the Five Rings would be more my style. The more strategy the better.

Its funny, just the other day for no reason i was trying to remember that old card game where you had car cards, there was one trump card in the pack. It was a good game for kids. Any takers?

A designer doesnt need to know everything about code, they just have to have an appreciation for its limitations and how those limitations affect features they may wish to include in their design. - Drew