I had a bit of an unusal idea, and one that I'm not sure could actually work unless a game was designed with this feature specifically in mind. But the idea is that of a persistant game world over multiple plays. Meaning that all the changes you made to the game world in previous plays would still be present the next time you played. Obviously this idea wouldn't work for most games. But assuming a game could be designed with this feature in mind would you like it? Assuming you would like it. How would you like to see it used and what sort of persistant changes possible over multiple generations of persistance would make it interesting? [Edited by - TechnoGoth on March 3, 2005 6:01:46 AM]

Well if there was a persistant world, there probably would be a 'reset button' to start a new game from how the world originally was. If so, doesn't that still count as one play until the point the world is reset?.
I think this idea has already been done, though it's just a little harder to see.
I may be wrong, or it might just be that you're thinking on a bigger scale in terms of a single play.

Sounds like you just renamed the concept of saved games.

I think he's refering to including death as a more core component of the game. Most games you play, when you die you reload the game and just keep going like nothing happened. If the player where able to die, but still re-enter the game world he could potentially sacrifice himself for a cause to change ingame events that he normally wouldn't be able to see if he did kill himself. Sortof reminds me of Ultima (although the avatar never dies, but comes and goes from the game-world).

I think this would be best in a game like Fallout, where the game world changes, but there really isn't a total "The End" resolution to things. You could play through once, getting the water chip back for the Vault, and then start a new game, with a new character, who is given the task of investigating the mutant menace. After that, maybe the Vault wants to engage in trade with the Brotherhood of Steel, so you can play again, this time in a world where water isn't a problem and the mutants are just about gone, but diplomacy is the objective. After that, you might help terraform the desert around Shady Sands, or fight for Ghoul rights in the necropolis.

The point is that each time you start a game, the world would be as you left it before. It appeals to me. I'd even like to see this combined with a dynamic like Animal Crossing, where multiple characters can inhabit the same world. If you plant a fruit tree in AC, then it will sprout a few days later and bear fruit. At that point, someone else might collect the fruit, so you'll miss out. This sort of thing would be interesting in a persistent world. You could even interact with the inert players as NPCs, perhaps, so you could trade between them or put other player characters into your party after you've created them.

Hmm... I'm not sure how easy it would be to work out the rules and dynamics of such a world. It would take some real work, but it seems feasible.

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Original post by Iron Chef Carnage I think this would be best in a game like Fallout, where the game world changes, but there really isn't a total "The End" resolution to things. You could play through once, getting the water chip back for the Vault, and then start a new game, with a new character, who is given the task of investigating the mutant menace. After that, maybe the Vault wants to engage in trade with the Brotherhood of Steel, so you can play again, this time in a world where water isn't a problem and the mutants are just about gone, but diplomacy is the objective. After that, you might help terraform the desert around Shady Sands, or fight for Ghoul rights in the necropolis. The point is that each time you start a game, the world would be as you left it before. It appeals to me. I'd even like to see this combined with a dynamic like Animal Crossing, where multiple characters can inhabit the same world. If you plant a fruit tree in AC, then it will sprout a few days later and bear fruit. At that point, someone else might collect the fruit, so you'll miss out. This sort of thing would be interesting in a persistent world. You could even interact with the inert players as NPCs, perhaps, so you could trade between them or put other player characters into your party after you've created them. Hmm... I'm not sure how easy it would be to work out the rules and dynamics of such a world. It would take some real work, but it seems feasible.

Yes, this exactly the kind of idea I had in mind, if you combine it with the notion of several end game states, death being one of them, it could make for a very enjoyable game.

For instance take the idea of getting the water chip for the vault. Now if you succeed and are able convince the vault to be more open then in future games the vault became a community that you can visit and acquire high tech gear. Or if you are killed before you can retrive the chip, then in the next game you start the vault is running low on supplies and you have the choice to play as a member of the vault wanting to leave or one who wants to stay.

Another way it could lead to interesting events is in a game with multiple characters each with their own view points to the story. That way in a limited fashion you could meet and interact with yourself from previous games, and watch you actions unfold from diffrent angles. For instance maybe the second time you play fallout 2, you choose to play as a ranger from NCR trying to stop the flow of jet in the wasteland while some crazy tribal calling themselves the chosen one is going around looking for a magic geko. Or depending on your actions you could choose to play as a gangster in new reno who is the child of a nameless traveler and bishops daughter. There might even be a few of you dads old mates around to help you seize control of new reno if only you can find them.

I think it's a very interesting idea provided that you can ensure some sort of stability for the game world. You might have to approach the game from the perspective of creating a self-perpetuating environment that has certain elastic qualities, and by that I mean aspects which can be altered (especially by the player) but return to normal over a period of time.

With elasticity in mind, i'm (for whatever reason) reminded of UFO: Enemy Unknown. Mostly because of its wonderfully deformable terrain as something which the player could do, like blowing holes in buildings, leaving large swath's of scorch marks, or planting tree's. ;D

Each replay would need new scripts and new stories... almost a complete new design. Sounds like a lot of extra work.

Resident Evil has had this already. While the changes were not the largest, playing a second time through with the other character had things changed. Most of the time it was just items you left or did not leave behind. In the later games, it resulted in more depending on which puzzles you solved or skipped (ie the ones you did not need to do). A bit basic compared to what i assume you want since its not really a persistent world.

A game with true replayability where each time you beat the game, new scenarios appear would merely be the equvilent of expansion packs. Possibly the player would see it as not really beating the game. As such, most games dont lend themselves to a persistent world without destroying fundamental gameplay.

If your job is to save the world and you do this, then there is nothing left to do the second time around. Sure you could make up a new threat, but thats a sequal. You might as well be seeling your game as a 2 (or more) for 1 deal. Not a good idea.

Persistent worlds have their place in MMORPGS. They are a wasted effort on single player games and the benefits are far below the work required.

If you want a semi persistent world in where the game has unlimited gameplay. You need to look into a system like morrowwind. you need to give players the ability to add quests and structures to the world so the player may continue playing without having to restart. If your game gets big enough, you will have plenty of volunteer players making content for your game. In morrowind expansions were not mere pack of levels with quests. Instead there were integrated into current content you had. Thus they could have dependencies (at least with the base game, not sure about between mods) on what quests you have completed and what items you had.

another place you can get ideas are MUDs which allwed user content and had persistent worlds. however they would be akin to text based MMORPGs.