Imagine that you witnessed something you should never have seen, and now the government wants you dead. What's the gameplay for your escape? It seems to me that if you're on the run you need three things: A place to hide; safe passage when moving around; and some kind of indicator that tells you how close the badguys are on your tail. Each of these situations could be ripe for intrigue. Is that safe house a decrepit building in the bad part of town, which could bring its own dangers? Is the guy you've paid to give you a ride likely to double cross you? Are those guys in black suits wearing sunglasses at midnight just tourist, or something more sinister? [wink] A couple of questions: Have you ever played a game where you were being chased around a large environment / world and could choose where you went (i.e., had to be responsible for escaping rather than a mission telling you, "do this to escape")? How much detail would you care to manage when you're on the run? Some examples:

• The name and location of people you might be able to trust, plus what they can do for you (fake ID, car, etc.), how trustworthy they are and what factions they're involved with
• Zones in a city where you can and can't go, due to security, including places you MUST get to in order to escape (like the airport) but which may be high security areas where you'll have to decide what to carry (carrying a gun is probably a bad idea, for example)
• When you can and can't go into certain areas (curfew at midnight means you have to be off the streets, for example)
• Where you're likely to be sought (don't go home, that's the first place they'll look)

What sort of freeform, non-mission-based gameplay do you think would help support this kind of gameplay? Missions will help round out specific situations, but I'm thinking about general things you might be able to do. Some ideas: -Buy something at a store with a marked ID / credit card, and it triggers the pursuit force to show up. The speed is dependent on how bad the neighborhood is and how badly you're wanted. -Your level of notoriety is how often your mug is plastered over the TV. This affects the chance that another character in the world will recognize you, and forces you to try to get a disguise (do you need some sort of bar or meter to tell how close to being recognized you are?) -Depending on how notorious you are, those who help you may decide to turn you in (what do you use to weigh this risk?) Any other thoughts?

First of all , you need amaizing AI or the game will suck big time.


Regarding your question. You could be given the option to seek exile with the party that has interest in your information(Like another country).

One other thought. You must leave the player with a way to clear its name.

So, it can either go all the way and work towards passing the securities and fleeing to the enemy (meaning, the other country), or it can stay and try to prove its innocence (if it was a misunderstanding) or find some powerfull figure that can remove Most Wanted tag off him.

Anyway. there has to be an exit somewhere along the way, cause if its all run and hide till the dusk of time, I think most players would tend to say : "fuck it" and just take the nearest gun arsenal , bunker up somewhere and try to kill as many cops ... Alamo all the way

This going to be sort of like GTA but with a constent wanted level?

You would probably want a very detailed wall. If I was being chased down an alley and there was a window (or door or something) I could escape out of the alley into a building through, but it was just a texture and I was stuck i think that would annoy me after a while.

You would probably want a map or something with locations where people could be found. Phone maybe so you could call them?

Bugger my lectures starting damn you wavbinator and your interesting posts.....

Quote:

Original post by A Guy from CRO First of all , you need amaizing AI or the game will suck big time.

What exactly do you think the AI needs to do? Of course, if it has your x,y,z then you're really just trying to avoid it using terrain like a puzzle, and that's no fun for this premise.

I actually DON'T think you need amazing AI. I think you'd need competent AI that can pathfind on a terrain and a very good set of understandable rules that will spawn them.

Quote:

Regarding your question. You could be given the option to seek exile with the party that has interest in your information(Like another country).

This is interesting. Any thoughts on the steps for making it happen? The victory condition would be landing in the other country's airport, but what do you have to do to get there?

Quote:

One other thought. You must leave the player with a way to clear its name.

Yes, I can imagine an interesting game of trying to get evidence, steal from locations, that sort of thing.

Quote:

Anyway. there has to be an exit somewhere along the way, cause if its all run and hide till the dusk of time, I think most players would tend to say : "fuck it" and just take the nearest gun arsenal , bunker up somewhere and try to kill as many cops ... Alamo all the way

So your take is that a premise like in Farscape or The Fugitive, where the main character(s) is/are always hunted and get into adventures as they're running away wouldn't work? Do you think that's because some gamers want to be ultra-powerful and dominate (and that running is a submissive behavior)?

Quote:

Original post by grekster This going to be sort of like GTA but with a constent wanted level?

That's a useful way to generally think about this. But the wanted level rises and falls based on what you do.

Quote:

You would probably want a very detailed wall. If I was being chased down an alley and there was a window (or door or something) I could escape out of the alley into a building through, but it was just a texture and I was stuck i think that would annoy me after a while.

Okay, good point, the environment has to have a lot of escape routes while you're on the actual level(s). I wouldn't even mind just being able to click on areas I know are textures (like inset windows) and being teleported inside, although that may present some weird problems with AI following.

Quote:

You would probably want a map or something with locations where people could be found. Phone maybe so you could call them?

Actually, I think there could be a lot of juicy factors involving just contacting people. If the government is after you, is the phone tapped?

Now, you might be able to intercept your allies and get them to help you when they leave their house or whatever, but this isn't real life, so you can't be expected to know their schedules. So maybe the map gives you some frequent locations if you click on somebody's house / name.

Quote:

Bugger my lectures starting damn you wavbinator and your interesting posts.....

LOL!!!! Well, appreciate the input, it was thought-provoking, if unfortunately brief. [lol]

Quote:

Original post by Wavinator What exactly do you think the AI needs to do? Of course, if it has your x,y,z then you're really just trying to avoid it using terrain like a puzzle, and that's no fun for this premise. I actually DON'T think you need amazing AI. I think you'd need competent AI that can pathfind on a terrain and a very good set of understandable rules that will spawn them.

Maybe amaizing was a bit over exagerated. What I meant to say is that the game (as I see it) would be sort of a game of hide and seek game, cat and mouse game.
Basically you are outwitting the enemy to escape. Its not fun to outwit a cheating opponent, its fun to outwit a SMART opponent, that's what gives you a sense of competence. Otherwise you might as well just make it plain GTA with wanted level (i.e. constant shooting, jumping, dodging, fast driving. Don't take me wrong, I'd like to see those things in a game but only, say 20%-30% of the time).

Quote:

This is interesting. Any thoughts on the steps for making it happen? The victory condition would be landing in the other country's airport, but what do you have to do to get there?

Why end in an airport. You landed in foreign country by tricking the airport security and misleading the agent at your tail but now you have to avoid spies that were given a directive to kill at sight. How do you know that the guy in the other countries secret agency is not a mole?

Quote:

So your take is that a premise like in Farscape or The Fugitive, where the main character(s) is/are always hunted and get into adventures as they're running away wouldn't work? Do you think that's because some gamers want to be ultra-powerful and dominate (and that running is a submissive behavior)?

Well I think you need a goal. While watching a movie or a series you feel for the main character. The main charcter is running away to save its life even if it means running forever, its the primal instinct. Emphasis on feeling for HIM. Emphaty.

When you play the game, you ARE the main character. Sure , you're running away to save your ass, but hey , all you need to do to save your ass is quit the game.

Altough those adventures along the way you mentiond would make for excellent subquests or bouns levels.

Quote:

Original post by grekster You would probably want a very detailed wall....

First I meant detialed evironment, why I put wall I dont know but i think you understood what I ment anyway:)

Yeah I think the communication thing could be good, thing like communcicating through newspaper write in(like red dragon) or adverts (Beautiful Mind). If the game allowed that and the AI would or wouldnt pick up on it depending on how sutle you were.

Situations where telling someone something could game you something in return, but it could get you in trouble if the other guy isnt trustworthy.

Going back to GTA something which bugs me is how police always keep spawning just in front of you in the street. If you kept track of all the law officials and had them controlled whether you were there or not (in real terms this may be a serious performance issue but hypothetically...)

dammit gotta go again, i will post more

I think thats a good point. In real life you would keep running to save your life/not be arrested. In the game it matters not as much.

Things like changing vehicle/clothes should cover you from being detected (if only for a little while) if you doing it out of sight.

You talk about the fluctuation of "wanted level" what would effect this?

Something I didnt realise before is in this your actually a good guy and the cops after you are bad (unlike GTA where youve actually done something wrong).

I think this could be good as a time trial. Take it in turns to see who can survive the longest. or maybe online multiplayer last my alive and free wins?

I think it's also important to allow for varying degrees of security. By this, I mean that perhaps one government will have cameras, scanners, and all kinds of other high-tech toys keeping an eye out for you. In this case, it might be dangerous to even step outside, and would require a particular strategy - like disguises or hacking the monitoring systems. On the other hand, if the area is full of patrolling guards or robots, you might need to be a little more direct - high speed chases, gun fights, etc.

A lot of HL2 was spent running from danger, and I loved it. The high-speed chases, the gun fights, and then just when you thought you were at a safehouse, you realized that it had either just been raided by the combine and everyone was dead, or the combine was just moments away from showing up. It created a great sense of urgency and non-stop action.

Quote:

Original post by grekster You talk about the fluctuation of "wanted level" what would effect this?

Perhaps instead of a "Wanted" level there could be a "Visibility" level, i.e. how aware is the government/police/FBI of your current location. High visibility would mean that the current area in which you are in would have high levels of security (e.g. guards, snipers, attack dogs). Lower visibility would result in a little more freedom to move about. This could promote stealth as well a constant state of paranoia :).