Karma is abit of a problem, and i can see huge potential pitfalls with the FoM system you mentioned. Whats to stop a group of friends from meeting online, and rating themselves into the top 10? Then you'd get groups of Power Levelers who would 'rush' people for free inside organizations or groups of people. This is a common problem often seen in most MMORPG games like Everquest, WoW, Planetside, etc, etc. I'm not saying its a horrible idea, it could work out nicely but may need a few guidelines to prevent rampant abuse, such as karma had-out limits, and preset completion goals so they can't make it to easy, and if the mission fails overall, the Karma they can handout is nill or greatly reduced.

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Original post by Gyrthok Karma is abit of a problem, and i can see huge potential pitfalls with the FoM system you mentioned. Whats to stop a group of friends from meeting online, and rating themselves into the top 10? Then you'd get groups of Power Levelers who would 'rush' people for free inside organizations or groups of people. This is a common problem often seen in most MMORPG games like Everquest, WoW, Planetside, etc, etc. I'm not saying its a horrible idea, it could work out nicely but may need a few guidelines to prevent rampant abuse, such as karma had-out limits, and preset completion goals so they can't make it to easy, and if the mission fails overall, the Karma they can handout is nill or greatly reduced.

Well, if a group of friends is large enough to do something like this, then they are probably large enough to run the faction that they're playing as. I say that because it's not like an 'instant' thing, and it's going to take more than just a weekend of making bogus missions for eachother.

Also, if the leader of this little band of failures isn't also completing missions to the satisfaction of those above him, then he will not rise in rank, and those below him will only be able to rise to his level.

I'm not exactly certain how they plan to deal with the higher ranks since there is, with this system, no way to achieve them. I think they're having GMs and GM appointed players act as the leaders of each faction, which may rub some the wrong way, but is exactly how things work in a real RPG -- the GM controls the NPCs, which encompass all the high ranking personalities, most times.

Planetside I play often and doesn't have a problem like you describe at all -- it's not an RPG. Rank newbie characters have just as much of a chance winning in a firefight as advanced characters. There is no unique or rare equipment.

Still, I don't think Karma in the SR world is as big a deal as people make it out to be in this thread, IF you award it properly. First, Karma isn't handed out constantly like XP in other games. Karma in SR is awarded to each player or not at the sole discretion of the GM and typically only at the end of a story arc or perhaps at certain "chapters" within that story.

This means it's not like "kill mob, get +5 karma" over and over like the rest of the genre, online and off, and shouldn't be turned into that either.

I don't like the idea of forced "karma sinks" like I've heard -- having those assumes that you already have an intractable problem with giving out karma to begin with, which you should not have. Even if you somehow did automate karma payment, a simple solution would be to put a cap on how much you can have at any one time. I'd probably put this cap, personally, somewhere around 5-10.

When i mention planetside, you should understand that it does possess RPG elements in the form of Battle Rank and Command Rank. While gameplay can go anyway because of FPS player skill, BR/CR supplies a greater selection and variety of weapons/abilities to the player, not to mention availability of implants which can sometimes make all the difference (Rexo + Pshield + (insert HA weapon here))/(HA + Darklight = Infiltrator Kibble). I beleive up until they fixed the MAX suits, just about every grunt on the field sported Anti-Vehicle for the Decimator to nuke MAX's, however in the forum's the level of effectiveness of the MAX was a matter of some debate, but most people seemed to agree that the MAX suit was rather underpowered against what it was supposedly made to kill. Then there were the instances where friends on two empires would continuously take over a few bases to get the XP cap bonus, as well as the veritible plague of CR5 players with their OS's and the "Empire Hoppers"/"Spies". Blah.. Xp

Anyway, it would be nice to build the system without the need of Karma sinks, which may indeed be possible if Karma is handed out in very small amounts. Such as giving 1 Karma for every 1000 XP, this would make it harder and/or longer for the players to max themselves out respectively.

Still, I don't think Karma in the SR world is as big a deal as people make it out to be in this thread, IF you award it properly. First, Karma isn't handed out constantly like XP in other games. Karma in SR is awarded to each player or not at the sole discretion of the GM and typically only at the end of a story arc or perhaps at certain "chapters" within that story.

This means it's not like "kill mob, get +5 karma" over and over like the rest of the genre, online and off, and shouldn't be turned into that either.

I don't like the idea of forced "karma sinks" like I've heard -- having those assumes that you already have an intractable problem with giving out karma to begin with, which you should not have. Even if you somehow did automate karma payment, a simple solution would be to put a cap on how much you can have at any one time. I'd probably put this cap, personally, somewhere around 5-10.

Your right, Karma isn't given out like xp is on a kill by kill basis. Its given out on a run by run basis. However, since this IS a computer based MMO there will need to be a concrete system for giving out karma. Probably a mission based system.

The question is based on the original system if you do a long series of quick and easy 1 karma systems you could create a very powerful character very "quickly".

This is the point of a karma sink. It may not come as quickly or easily as XP, but karma also does not come as randomly or haphazardly as you suggest.