Quote:

Original post by Sandman I suspect the problem is that you're a casual gamer who deep down, really wants to play 'hardcore' games. You find the games aimed at the 'casual gamer' market shallow and unfulfilling, but you don't have the time and/or patience to learn and play the 'hardcore' games enough to get anything out of them.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Basically, can I have a "hardcore" game that allows "casual" gamers to play, too? I think shunji pointed out part of the appeal of Halo to people like myself (and the vehement vitriol spewed against it by "hardcore," usually PC, gamers) here.

Quote:

Original post by Ned_K Unless you play a game how do you know if it's unplayable?

<Resists urge to say... something>

If a game's mechanics seem similar or identical to an existing game whose mechanics I found unpalatable, do I need to play the new one? Or are you saying that we should revoke generalization from the conceptual and cognitive toolset of humanity, requiring experience of every single item within a classification in order to speak on it?

I swear, some of you are so reactionary, it's offensive.

Quote:

Original post by solinear This is difficult to really conceptualize. For the life of me I can't understand why you're here.

Why I'm here is, strictly speaking, none of your business. It should be obvious, though: I'm here because I'd like to see different games from the norm being made.

Quote:

Original post by solinear Quote: Original post by Oluseyi Why do games hide their play mechanics? To sell strategy guides? Weren't you just the one who bitched about eh RPG focus on numbers? Pick a side and stick to it please. This statement really irritates me.

That's because you're intellectually lazy.

(You think you're irritated? I'm really getting offended at the superficial treatment my comments are receiving for the apparent reason that they contradict the existing norm. If you're not going to try to understand what I'm saying, then please just ignore me.)

Play mechanics do not mean "show me the numbers." They mean explain the philosophy of the environment to me. Indicate - or even just suggest - how action A affects variable V. Fini. The system exists behind the scenes, but in situations where it is not a direct simulation of real life, have the decency to make it comprehensible by providing hints as to how it works. I'm not "hardcore" enough to spend weeks trying to figure it out.

Allow me to substantiate for you: I started playing KOTOR during the summer. I quit 15 minutes in. As far as I could tell, there was a perfectly random scheme at work in the fights. I never played pen 'n paper RPGs. I have no clue how "AD&D" rules work, and I don't care. I kept hearing how great a game it was, but it was a tedious, incomprehensible chore to me. Creating my character took forever, and I still didn't get it when I was done. And I'm a very smart person.

What was the problem? Too many numbers, and not enough explication of play mechanics. Every time I hit someone or they hit me, I saw a number float up to the top of the screen and disappear. From reading posts of RPG fans on this site, I guessed those were HP. Okay... how does that relate to anything else I'm doing?

Don't bother to quote from the rulebook. The game should have told me in a simple fashion that use analogies to common referrents, and eschewed all the numbers in favor of one, two or three bars. I'm looking for a diversion, for entertainment, not a bookkeeping exercise.

This is why I think Sandman got to the heart of the matter. The overwhelming majority of games target a mythical "hardcore" gamer who is aware of and well-versed in all the internal logic of various game types and their attendant play mechanics. For persons like myself who have always been on the periphery or who are newcomers, this excludes us from the fun. And that is a problem.

What are you going to do about it?

Quote:

Quote:Original post by Sandman I suspect the problem is that you're a casual gamer who deep down, really wants to play 'hardcore' games. You find the games aimed at the 'casual gamer' market shallow and unfulfilling, but you don't have the time and/or patience to learn and play the 'hardcore' games enough to get anything out of them. I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Basically, can I have a "hardcore" game that allows "casual" gamers to play, too?

The problem with many games, imo, is that they have either too-high a learning curve (only good if you have the patience, time and inclination) or its a very short game that can be finished in a few hours (less value-for-money and possibly unsatisfying, depending on type of game).
We have developed a game idea that would appeal to both hardcore and casual gamers (but cannot do at present due to the high development cost - so it's on the back-burner until we are in a position to develop fully). So do not despair Oluseyi, there are developers out there who understand the differing needs of gamers and would like to address them ...it'll just take a while that's all. :)