Quote:

Personally, MMORPGs strike me as insanely boring. But, then again, I'm hardly a gamer.

I'm a very hard-core gamer and MMORPGs strike me as insanely boring. At least so far.

Quote:

Original post by Vanquish Ok. Stated simply.... "Whats the biggest problem with MMORPGs to date?" put another way - "What undiscovered pain exists that a developer could fix to make their game stand out?" Is it ending the level treadmill? Would a simple skill-per use system answer this? Is it the lack of interactivity in the world/environments? Would adding single-player mystery game elements be enough to fix this? Assuming a NON-fantasy, non-tolkein MMO...what "silver bullet" would make a game stand out more than just mere evolutionary movement forward?

If you are looking for "something new" then make an MMORPG with great ACTION. You don't have to re-invent the wheel with a whole new approach to the format that no one has ever tried. Just fix the game play, with everything else being equal, and it's a major improvement. MMORPGs turn many many people off because they are slow and not really exciting. A standard sword and sorcery game (like every other one) with GREAT gameplay (fast fast fast) would set you head and shoulders above the competition.

Quote:

Original post by silverRohan Don't you realize the time sink is the big selling point of a MMORPG. From a company standpoint, the more time a person invests in a game, the more time they are going to continue investing. This is where the whole monthly fees comes into play. If we can make the players feel that they have to continue and stopping would make it a waste of time then we can get more money from our product. Every MMORPG I've seen to date has been using this concept. Asheron's Call, Everquest, etc. etc.

No, the time-sink aspect isn't the selling point, it's the goal of the game. People don't buy it (at least most people) with the idea that they are going to spend 15 hours a day on-line, get divorced and have their cat die from starvation. You sell the game on its merits and hope it hooks people. Everquest and the first MMORPGs were anomalies. They were the "new thing" and as such had a much higher addictive value. People were just plain excited to be playing and had never seen anything like it before. Players are more jaded now and there are going to be a LOT of MMORPG titles available to chose from very soon. People are also more careful shoppers now. They know they might become addicted so they don't want to settle on second best. The issue is, however, these games could be so much better than they are. Game designers have lost sight of that bare-knuckled, sweaty palm, heart-attack thing you get with fast paced games. I've been playing them since space invaders and I'll tell you, something's missing on the MMORPGs out there now. Are they cool in their own way? Yes. Could they kick some major behind compared to what they do now? Absolutely.

More good ideas.

First of all let me answer the ACTION part. We are going to try to bring the action of a console game like Tom Clancy Splinter Cell or Syphon Filter to the MMORPG world.

The catch is that along with it comes the character depth of an RPG MMO.

And the idea is to link it all by the actions of the characters moving the storyline towards its climax. Many possible climaxes that the world can bring itself to.

Ive been reading a lot about fiction writing lately and it all comes back to the journey of the hero. Joseph Cambell wrote a great book called "The Hero of 1000 faces" - a cross culture look at the journey of the hero.

I had a WILD idea that for the game instead of character classes a developer could change the formula:

a. create 100 heroes
b. alter these heroes based on 3 races, 5 factions
c. create a story arc for each of these permutations
d. allow for good and evil versions

So what we have would be a crafted storyline with the action in the game progressing the story...based on the decisions that the character made at several critical points.

PROS: a much more detailed story for the player, possible emotional interaction

CONS: a lot of bloody work, tough to make it a group experience unless you wrote group storylines.

But thats just an aside. We definitely think that the stealth of Splinter Cell, Hitman and games such as these should be ported to the MMO world and added with much deeper stories, group missions, Group PvP, and character development.

I'm personally not fond of using fast action to spice up a game. I don't even know why people do it when they make single player RPG's, unless they really don't like RPG's at all or they're trying to make something "different" which may or may not suck. I like turn-based combat. To me, that's part of what makes the classic RPG's classic. (Maybe not so easy to do in multiplayer though..."Dammit Joe, hurry up and get outta the bathroom so we can finish our fight!" :P)

And where is it written that in order to be a "hardcore gamer" you have to only like games where you shoot everything that moves? I played a large percentage of the RPG's made for NES and SNES, and I frequently played every available minute of the day. The only reason I don't do so now is because some poopyhead decided Gamecube didn't need very many RPG's. (That and the fact that modern RPG's seem to be all about FMV instead of actual *gasp* gameplay.)

Do you know how hard it is to stay alive in an action game while smoking a cigarette? :P

I agree that action isnt everything - to me its overall tempo. You want some edge of your seat stuff and some interesting downtime to explore and develop your character. And the action should be linked to the story of course.

While I love Fallout and Jagged Alliance (hell I even like the old Cossacks), Im not a huge fan of turnbased stuff. I think the far future of computer games will be more like interactive movies (notice I didnt say VR) with multiple outcomes. And thats what Id enjoy playing.

We're trying to hybrid-ize the game by adding RTS, squad-based, and mystery content so that it isnt a constant "run and gun" game...but more a world that people want to exist in.

There are too many of them, hence they all are very similar.

I think the problem is a focus on strength instead of on character interaction.

Here's what I want in an online RPG (not necessarily MMO):
*2D, more simple graphics: Hopefully this will get rid of some of the people who are there for the 1337-ness.
*time spend playing doesn't matter as much: Several noobs can take on an experienced, powerful player and win. Players will have to play as a team to do well. (NPC teammates should be available, though.)
*destructible/creatable world: This will help interactivity and will be far easier in 2d than 3d.
*focus on player interaction and teamwork rather than grind: Guilds should be more than groups of people trying to get stronger; they should have enemies and allies with more reason than just having fun fighting. The story and interacting with teammates (RPing) should be more important than the grind.

Some of these ideas would require that the game not be fun for your stereotypical AOL kiddie, but I don't think I would enjoy a MMORPG with the current system. I would rather play a game with fewer, more dedicated players. The community should create their own story with groups fighting eachother and being able to change things.

I think that the community is far more important than the game itself. Of course I am nowhere near most MMORPG players, but I think those are my biggest desires for the genre.

nice ideas...

If I were you, I wouldn't talk about numbers.
Traditional rpgs that take place in the past should be more natural such as...

You: "Sir James, have you noticed that my axework has gotten a lot better lately? And I actually feel a bit stronger!"

James:"Ahh lad, that's mighty fine! I can tell by those pumped up muscles you have improved your strength."

vs...

You:"Sir James, I'm now a lvl 88 wood chopper overnight!"

James:"lvl 88 what?Oh well congrats anyways..."


Personally, we can be nerdy all we want. However, lets not make all of our audiance nerdy. What normal, scocial, popular kid likes numbers nowadays?

get rid of the #'s!!!

I think the concept of MMO and RPG mix like oil and water... you can toss em together all you want, stir them up, but they still won't work.

Your 'role' in the typical MMORPG is demolished by the fact that everybody else is playing an equally important 'role'. Make an RPG with one to ten people together and sure, you have some memorable characters who can make a difference in the world... but massivly multiplayer games make you a faceless hero in a world overwraught with mindless, eternal peril which you can never fully overcome.

While you are still technically playing a role, it's not one very suitable for an epic adventure. You can't all be built into the central storyline. You can't all be heros. NPCs treat everybody equally. Personality has no development, only skills.

So my point is stop wanting to make the ultimate MMORPG, make another kind of MMO, one more focused on gameplay and interaction. I suggested something like this here if you care to see some ideas.

Just my opinion. I do enjoy MMORPGs, although I think enough is enough. Move on, and think of more suitable genres to go with MMOs.

As ever,
**Cosmic**