Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke


Consequently, this thread is pointless.

Not if we're talking about insufficiently advanced magic. [grin]

I think Steampunk and Cyberpunk (as in Shadowrun, involving Magic) are tried and proven concepts. Many, many games have this kind of mixture, from Quake to Thief to Dungeon Siege.

A good example of a mixture of Magic and Science would be the long held Final Fantasy series, which mixes the two theme's rather well. If you want a good example of it, i recommend trying them out.

As for the philisophical differences between magic and science, that is far to deep a subject to start wading into here.. suffice it to say:

"The more things change, the more they stay the same.."

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I think technology comes from necessity.

To perhaps add a little insight, I'm currently an undergrad studying math/physics. I'm working on my senior projects, so I'm getting familiar with some aspects of current research in these fields, and I've also gotten to know the professors and their research interests. It is my experience that research is much more dependent on the personal interests of the researcher than on any necessity or drive for improvement. Some research strange topics in the hopes that it'll some day be useful, but the majority seem to study a field simply because they find it intriguing. Our current trip to Titan isn't of necessity, unless you claim it's in our nature to be curious and thus find satisfying our curiosity necessary, but then you've also removed the conflict between magic and technology even if only one is "necessary". We'd explore the other if only because we're curious.

This topic was completely mis-interperted (not completely...but somewhat...by some people...)

let me clarify...

I am referring to a sci-fi star-trek-esque setting where the spock is throwing fireballs...

I was/am also referring to modern technology/magic settings (which any form of doubt has been sufficiently ripped to shreads, stomped on, and then burnt into oblivion)...

Even if magic was tiring i doubt technology would not go to the extremes...

-Ajain

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Original post by Way Walker It is my experience that research is much more dependent on the personal interests of the researcher than on any necessity or drive for improvement.

What you say is true, but irrelevant. You are talking about real science, which is only vaguely related to technology.

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Original post by Ajain This topic was completely mis-interperted (not completely...but somewhat...by some people...) let me clarify... I am referring to a sci-fi star-trek-esque setting where the spock is throwing fireballs... I was/am also referring to modern technology/magic settings (which any form of doubt has been sufficiently ripped to shreads, stomped on, and then burnt into oblivion)... Even if magic was tiring i doubt technology would not go to the extremes... -Ajain

Well then, to use your Startrek example, we'll take the Q. Obviously, for them, it's superior for them to use thier powers rather than the inferior technology that everyone else uses. The Vulcans have thier mental powers mostly due to tradition, and those abilities do come in quite useful in spite of the technology avaliable, so why should they not still use them?

I challenge you to come up with any setting where the existence of both magic and technology cannot in someway be justified - although as has been noted, things that make no sense occur in reality all the time, so why should a game be any different.

I'm not sure if all of what I'm going to say is covered by someone else, but....

1) Mages aren't everywhere and most of them aren't going to say "Hey there Mrs. McGee, did you want me to levitate all those carrots for you to town?" She needs the cart. The mage doesn't, but she's not the mage now, is she?

2) General technology (wheel... fire... metalworking, etc...) are not built around servicing the elite mages (professors, whatever), they're built around making their lives easier. Yes, the mage can go teleport to town, pick up his mail and run back home, then teleport to town, get his groceries, then go heat up the oven with magic, then..... you get the idea. There is too much *crap* that he would be doing if everything is done with magic. However, if technology shows up and he gets a cast iron wood burning stove, then the cooks can heat up the stove without his help. Heck, if the pipes are run through the house right, someone can heat the entire home/tower/whatever without the mage having to do anything. Yes, he *could* heat the entire house, but mages (like everyone else) are lazy and don't want to do the actual work, they just want it done (preferably *by* someone else).

3) Learning magic isn't about how I can make *your* life better, it's about *my* curiosity and making my life better. Don't like it? Tough shit. If I want vennison stew, then I'll charm the deer to walk to my house, if I want my groceries fresh, I'll teleport them back to my house. If I want my house heated with magic, I'll have it magically set to 72 degrees (Farenheit). Not your house, my house. You want your house warm and don't know magic? You'd better go learn magic or get a wood burning stove.

OK, just read the clarification (magic vs. HIGH tech).

Why? I'm not sure. The biggest problem would be that people would have to learn magic to use it, but technology generally just works for you.

Then again, magic is as much about personal power as it is about knowledge. If I could disintegrate something with a flick of my hand or go grab a phaser, which would I do? Even though the phaser might be easier and less strenuous, some people just *like* doing it themselves. Anti-grav pad? Naah, I'll just levitate it. Why? Because I can. Spend my time convincing you to do what I want? Naah, I'll just turn you into my mindless drone doing whatever I want you to.... why? Because I can.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts vodka... er... absolutely.